J.Walker wrote:
@Ben_Kai

would be a good idea to maybe give out a little bit more info on the project like a project name, maybe even a url to a site or forum if your looking to get people interested in helping.

I might be but like i said, more info is a good thing.

I’ll send you a pm later today when I get home with details.

@ TheDvDMan

70 ships is the final count. Only about 30 will be available in the initial release. I hardly think 70 is an unreasonable number for multiple star systems and races… A TC would be kind of boring with only 20 ships don’t you think? Of course its not fun coding that many ships but hardly all that time consuming if you have been modding FL for quite a while. And the end result always makes it worthwhile. I have seen lots of mods with 100+ ships, sci-fi madness mods as you call them. How many ships are in Freelancer vanilla with its relatively small universe only containing 2 races?

The mod is based on a popular sci-fi Universe and the idea is to start in an early time period. As players level up, time goes by, new systems and races are discovered and new ships become available.

A giant mess…err… Total Conversion

This is the reason why I didn’t get into details and debated for a week over posting at all. Some people feel the need to be negative when they don’t like or agree with others ideas/projects. If you are not interested then why bother posting…

I guess constructive criticism is always a plus as long as it is just that… Constructive. Thanks!

Thanks! We will need it. :lol:

I was going to post the tut in the Tutorials section but I guess only staff can post there….?

@ Gibbon

Glad you got it worked out and decided to come back! Snazzy lil rock base!!

We have a small team currently working on a total conversion mod and could use a little help to speed things up a bit.

About us…

We ran a rather popular server eons ago with a custom mod mainly focused on PvP with some RP mixed in. We have our own domain and a dual core server box running our old mod, which 6 years later, still has a small fan base surprisingly enough…

We have been toying around with this idea for a few years now and with the improvements and latest hacks for Freelancer released here on TSP, we believe now is the time to make it happen. I wont get into the genre, story line or main details as I have seen a few people/teams try this with either mixed results or no release at all. I do not want to jinx us. If you are interested pm me and I’ll give you a heads up.

We have atm 70+ ships we are importing into the game. I can say most of these are new to Freelancer. Everything is being built from the ground up with the exception of base scripts which in my experience are very time consuming. We may try to tackle these as well, if one of our modelers returns from his absence due to working on a new game using the UDK.

I tend to do most of the systems, factions and equipment coding, a long with hard points, info cards and balancing. I could use some help with any of these as this is turning out to be very time consuming. We also need writers for background and sub plot ideas as well as custom FX and audio.

Thanks for reading and keeping this spectacular game alive!!

Beautiful! You guys just keep cranking it out…… Much Respect.

Dam if they started making new episodes I would be STOKED!!

FriendlyFire wrote:

EDIT: Ben_Kai, comparing vanilla meshes with these might not really say much. In the very best scenario (we understood the format perfectly and had experts in making the models), we’d have approximately the same performance.

What does matter is that custom SURs built using Schmack’s new exporter versus either LS’s tool or the old MS3D exporter are between 25% and 75% more efficient. That is a huge difference. Our Battle of Bilbringi went from 10-15 fps to 30-40 fps with server load going down from >50 ms to <10 ms.

Yes that is a huge improvement. Thats excellent. I’ve been waiting for FW2.0 to come out since it was announced. I was comparing mine to the Vanilla mainly as a reference, because I noticed the size difference. That and the fact that I have never seen any custom surs that could compare to them hit detection/stability wise, until now. I’m pretty sure I have played every mod that has been released since early 05 and there was always random unexplained crashes which modders usually blamed on the surs… I do have a few custom surs made with sur builder and the exporter. I will throw those in and see what kind of performance difference I get between the 3. After I reduce the polys on the fighters and regenerate the surs.

Schmackbolzen wrote:

Well this is also an issue which someone should test. In theory a collision mesh build only out of convex elements should be less a performance hit than a polygon reduced one. The important question is, how much difference does it make?

There is a difference, but it does not seem to be that much for your average setup. Im testing on an AMD64 @ 2.2 ghz with only 1 gig of ram. Im running FLServer and 1 instance of the client on the server box. When switching from resized vanilla surs to the ones I generated with your tool the server load only increases about 5 to 7 ms. This is with 25 -30 npcs and three player ships, all using the new surs.

Im sure if you use my method, and had 100 + players in the same system in a knot, you would notice a much larger performance difference. But I know of only 3 servers that get anywhere near that many players together and they have mod teams big enough to make new simple meshes for their ships….

My point was you don’t have to make all new meshes. If I ran Discovery or HC, then yea, new meshes would be the only way to go.

Performance was the 1st thing I thought of when I saw how large the 1st couple of surs I generated were. The Vanilla ones seem to average between 20-30 KB. Mine are between 90-110KB.

Edit I didn’t reduce the polys on any of the fighter surs I made. I think I will try that and see just how small I can get the surs, and then re-test…

FriendlyFire wrote:

I’ll say it once more: this isn’t a magical big button “make perfect SUR”. It requires you to make the simple model from scratch (like you would have done before with the old MS3D SUR exporter) and then use that. Just like I said in the past, this is very likely to be how the original devs did, too.

Acctually I call BS on that one…. Compared to what everyone had to go through before to get a sur that worked halfway decent.

It is quite magical. :lol:

Looking at the original ones I believe they were made like that.

If you want to go through and make 20 to 100+ simple models for all your fighters, capital ships, bases, etc, and waste your time, you can.

You don’t have to…

I have 9 tested surs, using the method I posted above, that I can upload to prove it.

I have made about 20 fighter surs so far, have only tested 7 thoroughly. Those 7 have passed 6-8 hour stress tests .

Dev server is setup so that 2 factions fly the same ship with the new sur and shoot each other. Loadouts include guns, missles and torps. Zone set to spawn 30 npcs. Also have a base in the center shooting at both factions. I periodically jump in the middle and shoot at them, bump them with my shield down, and let them shoot me. No errors or crashes.

This is the method I use for fighters…

.cmp --> MS3D :

Import hard points and auto load, are the only boxes I check.

Then export to .OBJ

.OBJ to .SUR converter:

I leave the 1st box at default 5,0

Then I check 2nd and 3rd boxes.

Then enter the hardpoints in the order they are listed in HardCMP.

example:

HpCM01
HpEngine01
HpEngine02
HpMine01
HpMount
HpShield01
HpThruster01
HpTractor_Source
HpCloak01
HpTorpedo01
HpTorpedo02
HpWeapon01
HpWeapon02
HpWeapon03
HpWeapon04
HpWeapon05
HpWeapon06
HpWeapon07
HpWeapon08

Going on what StarTrader said about needing the hardpoints in the sur files,
I would think you must enter them or you will run into the random crashes everyone was getting with the previous methods.

For larger ships and stations with Vertices over 8-10k I use MS3D’s DirectX Mesh tools or LithUnwrap’s Optimize tool, to lower poly count. The DirectX mesh tools seem to work ok on some models, but not others. For the ones that dont, I Ctrl Z to undo any changes made by directx mesh and save as a MS3D file. Then open the mesh with LithUnwrap, Optimize and save then back to MS3D, weld vertices, export as .OBJ.

I also made 15 or more surs for battleships and large stations last night and will be testing those today. Will report back with results.

I cant seem to find my copy either….

Anyone have this laying around?

Downloaded the sur converter, opened MS3D, imported a ship cmp, exported as .OBJ. Was kinda confused when I fired up the converter but common sense always prevails. Left the 1st block at 5. Checked the 2nd and 3rd. Typed in the HP’s for the ship, hit go.

The sur it spit out looked beautiful, but kinda large, about 140KB….

So I fired up the dev server, launched FL, undocked. To my delight, no crash!! No server errors, no spew errors. Fired up 2nd pc and began shooting the hell out of it. Registers gun hits, missles and torps, flawlessly. Unmounted my shield and bumped it about 100 times, still going. I have seen the same behavior with single group surs I made using sur builder. They worked great just shooting at them, but under stress test about 18 out of 20 I made using it crashed between 10 mins to an hour.

I shut down the server, set zone to spawn 30 npcs and let it run. 2 factions both flying the same ship with the new sur, and a base shooting at them both. 2 hours now, no crash.

All I can say is EXCELLENT WORK!!!

The only problem I saw was the memory leak. Oh and since my girl has been out of town all week, she will want to kill you when she gets home today as its now 6:30am and I been up all night playing with sur files…

Holy crap! Sexxxyl!!

Thanks!

forums.seriouszone.com seems to be down for a couple of days now.

Do you have another link or the info in a text file by chance?

Or a link to the FL account Path Patch?

If you add

hull_damage = 100000
energy_damage = 1293000

to the [Munition entry on torps it works vs AI but not player ships.

I cant remember how we got it to work with the nukes we used to play around with…

adoxa wrote:

rp8.dll 	00D1FD	B802->EB4D = disable "set_material() called outside of create_buffers/destroy_buffers" spew warning ~adoxa
rp8.dll 	00FA82	B802->EB4D = disable "set_render_state() called outside of create_buffers/destroy_buffers" spew warning ~adoxa
rp8.dll 	00FBE9	B802->EB4D = disable "set_texture_stage_state() called outside of create_buffers/destroy_buffers" spew warning ~adoxa
rp8.dll 	0100ED	B802->EB4D = disable "set_texture_stage_texture() called outside of create_buffers/destroy_buffers" spew warning ~adoxa
rp8.dll 	01033C	B802->EB4D = disable "verify_state() called outside of create_buffers/destroy_buffers" spew warning ~adoxa
rp8.dll 	015403	B802->EB5C = disable "set_gamma_function() called outside of create_buffers/destroy_buffers" spew warning ~adoxa
freelancer.exe	03B348	74->EB = disable "Failed to get start location" spew warning ~adoxa

I added these hacks but had probs with the last two. The others work great! Thanks!!

Not a big deal as the….

WARNING:General:set_texture_stage_state() called outside of create_buffers/destroy_buffers
and
WARNING:General:set_render_state() called outside of create_buffers/destroy_buffers

are the ones that tend to show up in droves… Out of curiosity, figured I would post.