Why485 wrote:

I think people really underestimate the throw that /v/ has. While they tend to work in “flavors of the month,” they can collectively produce some pretty surprising and quality things. (Pic semi-related) Honestly, you bring up Freelancer in one thread and it’s not uncommon to see a wave of “brb reinstallan,” and, “What mods are good?” There are a lot of Freelancer fans that could easily come back from that site, and the last time I checked, the FL community wasn’t getting any bigger.

/V/s problem is really a totally understandable problem. I’m not going to lie, the motivation for me doing a lot of things in FL modding revolves around “I can do a better job than that.” Most people stop at just pointing out problems, but these guys actually did something about it. While I can’t officially condone their behavior in relation the “real” FL community, you can’t ignore that they are not so different from us. They also are a rather size-able community as well. One that if their numbers were added to ours, I really would have nothing to complain about considering the dwindling numbers that FL has.

Yes, I am aware I’m defending a subset of 4chan. I love watching you all get so riled up over something that doesn’t really matter that much. Sue me.

On a side note, I said this before in the last /v/lancer thread and I’ll say it again. Everything I make/mod in Freelancer I do not hold to myself. I think it is rather selfish for anyone to even think about holding modding any information to themselves. That said, should /v/ ever like to use any of the features or effects I’ve created for FL in general, Itano Circus, and my contributions to 88 Flak (The Liberty Gunboat for example.) feel free.

(Models are a somewhat different story, but they have permissions from the modelers themselves. Or so I’ve heard.)

I’d just like to state that you seem to be the most level-headed and understanding person here, and that you are a true bro. Also, I have a question for you - Did you ever get that Colony Ship into the actual game? Because that thing was amazing.

Also, what Pasta said is the truth. We have asked permission, and gotten nothing but attitude and elitism in return. We ARE giving credit to the mods the resources come from, and we’ve said that before.

Whatever happened to sharing resources with each other freely for the betterment of the community? Remember when it wasn’t about who had the best server, or whose mod was best? Remember FUN?

I realize this sounds borderline-troll, but I want to get this out there that my troll-mode is deactivated right now, this is a genuine, legitimate question with the intention of initiating a discussion, not stirring up #$%%.

w0dk4 wrote:
Thats simply not true. If I create a model, or texture, or a sound file from scratch, it has a copyright.
Now if I put it in a game, it doesnt lose it’s copyright. Why would it?

I think you need to look up what derivative work means:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derivative_work

I believe I have repeatedly and frequently stated that original works are copyrighted, and I never once said that it loses its copyright, now did I? I said derivative works as well as modifications. Two seperate definitions that the Berne Convention does not, in fact, apply to. Surely you’re not suggesting that your works are purely original and not a modification to an existing property?

Bullwinkle wrote:

Copyright Terms of Use for " Unspecified sci-fi art image "
You may use this image personaly or on your website for recommendation and education purpose only by placing one of the mandatory reference links below. The image cannot be used for any commercial purpose without written consent of the original author. Please contact the artist directly via his/her website in order to obtain a contact information or get any image usage permissions. Email us if you have any other questions.

I don’t understand how you guys can print the above Terms of Use and miss the point that the image is freely licensed ONLY by giving credit (through one of the “mandatory reference links” ).

It’s free, sure, but the artist requires that proper credit be given (or ask for permission, as DwnUndr did).

:-?

Yes, but you see at the heart of all this is the fact that this is a provably and legally certifiable copyright, whereas mods and derivative works cannot be copyrighted in such a manner.

As much as people like to cite it, the Berne Copyright Convention applies to original works, and in fact, does not at all apply to modifications or derivative works of any kind, as the works are built off of someone else’s already copyrighted and protected works.

That being said, since the Berne Copyright Convention does not apply, paperwork must be filed with the government of the country you wish to copyright it in, and even then, since it is, again, a modification/derivative work, it may not even qualify for copyright then.

Since it has most certainly not been filed and certified, as you folks keep citing the Berne Copyright Convention like it actually applies, permission and/or credit is not necessary or required, as the resources are freely available on the internet, and are not being used for commercial purposes and monetary gain. So the use of one mod’s resources in another mod are alright, because they are a) not copyrighted, and b) not being used for monetary gain, as it’s not legal to sell mods.

Gibbon wrote:

weishaupt wrote:

Gibbon wrote:
FFS. Nice i got dragged into this. It’s a free picture downloadable from here

http://fantasyartdesign.com/free-wallpapers/digital-art.php?u_i=43&i_i=138

91683 people have downloaded it from just this site alone. No i haven’t asked permission to use it as it’s a free download. End of discussion.

So what you’re saying as I understand it from your own words, is that copyrighted or not, if it’s a free download, then asking permission to use it is completely unnecessary? Awesome, good to know.

You obviously like stirring s*** so i’ll be as simple as possible with the explanation here. I’m not using it for commercial purposes, it’s for private use, therefore i’m not breaking any usage regulations. If i was using it for commercial purposes then yes, things would be different.

On your other point, stop making out i’ve said something when i haven’t, if you can’t understand what i’ve written, get a grownup to explain it you.

No, I understand completely. You said yourself, “No, I haven’t asked permission to use it as it’s a free download”. And right here you say “As long as it’s for non-commercial purposes I’m not breaking any usage regulations.” Therefore, taking one mod’s content to be used in another wouldn’t be against the rules, as the download for every resource used was free, and it’s being used for non-commercial purposes. After all, nobody sells mods. That would be illegal.

Gibbon wrote:
FFS. Nice i got dragged into this. It’s a free picture downloadable from here

http://fantasyartdesign.com/free-wallpapers/digital-art.php?u_i=43&i_i=138

91683 people have downloaded it from just this site alone. No i haven’t asked permission to use it as it’s a free download. End of discussion.

So what you’re saying as I understand it from your own words, is that copyrighted or not, if it’s a free download, then asking permission to use it is completely unnecessary? Awesome, good to know.

Xarian_Prime wrote:
/v/ ppl… you know exactly what warranted my reply, snide remarks reminding me of a locked thread that was locked for good freakin reason.

now there’s the door… don’t let it hit you in the ass on the way out, & you all hovering over this thread only makes me mad…(er) I despise vultures.

I am quite a civil person… until is see such crap as you lot have spewed forth over the past week… I for one DO NOT welcome your presence here & many others feel the same… expect more “incivilities” to come… but not from me… im done with you lot… Freakin loosers :roll:

Are you still on that? I’m trying to agree with you here. You’re right. Use of legally documented copyrighted material without permission is wrong. Why so angry? Just because the one using the copyrighted material without permission is someone you generally like and agree with rather than someone you don’t?

I’m being courteous here when I don’t have to be. You’ve been quite rude with your “don’t let the door hit you in the ***” and whatnot. For one who makes a claim of civility your demeanor certainly belies an altogether different conclusion.

Just because you don’t like someone doesn’t make a true and factual statement (one that completely agrees with and supports your assertions) hold any less water. Use of legally documented copyrighted material without permission is use of legally documented copyrighted material without permission, even if it is a friend of yours.

Xarian_Prime wrote:
Im sory to the ppl that know i know better… & at risk of getting in mega S*#T (or temp ban) … im still gonna say it…

F.U.C.K. O.F.F.

This was a legit ask where we had “seen” this pic… not who’s getting screwed outa what royaltys… ect

If i was a admin… you’d all be turfed for being so freakin childish & hijacking an otherwise pleasant discussion

Your behavior has offended me to a high calibur, & im rarley offended.

What did I say that was offensive? I’m agreeing with you here. Using copyrighted materials is wrong. When someone’s legally copyrighted intellectual property is being used without permission, that is not okay to do. That’s your stance, isn’t it? That it is not okay to use provably and legally certifiable copyrighted material without the creator’s express permission? Nothing there seems offensive. Why would we argue if we agree?

Xarian_Prime wrote:
Thats Gizmo studios (Gibbon’s) web backdrop…

At least that’s were i’ve seen it before, & you 2 ^^ bugger off… for a second there i thought you were serious … then i recalled that “thread”…

Not funny… now move along…

Funny you should say that, as earlier in the thread someone established the copyright information. Actual proof of copyright and ownership.

Does Gibbon have permission to use that painting as his backdrop? Did he ask the artist or pay for the licensing rights to use it? And don’t say “THAT’S COMPLETELY DIFFERENT” because it’s not. In fact, it’s even more relevant and defensible than your argument, because we’ve actually established a provable copyright that can be proven, not “IT AM COPYRIGHTED BECUZ I SAY SO ORIJINUL KARAKTURR BERNE CONVENTION GIBES AUTOMATIC COPYRIGHT AN IS APPLICABLE TO DERIVATIVE WORKS AN MODIFICATIONS I MADE A PIKTUR UB DA USS ENTURPRIZE SO I OWN IT DURR”

So does he have permission to use that? Because it’s wrong to use the COPYRIGHTED work of others without their permission.

Gibbon wrote:

Skeletor wrote:
I hereby request you submit legally documented proof of your copyright on said models that you do not want in /v/lancer. They must be signed and dated BEFORE they were ever uploaded to the internet, or else they become fair use. You can’t upload something, then months later apply for a copyright, and have it be valid.

**Not sure what school of legal idiocy you got that from but that’s totally incorrect. In the great scheme of things it doesn’t matter anyway. Shows how clever you guys are anyway by quoting the EULA as well saying nothing can be modified. This isn’t true either if you could be bothered to keep up with current events and Microsofts standing towards game modification…

The simple truth here and i’ll type s l o w l y so it sinks in, is this. Anyone creates a custom anything, be that model/music/image not originally from FL has the legal copyright to said artifact, end of.
If that person chooses to share it on the web, that’s fine but credit should be given, preferably asked for, in the case of commercialy available music for instance, definately need permission. If said article is then used without permission then a legal issue arises. Simple enough for you?**

That is neither factually nor legally accurate. A copyright is government paperwork that has to be both completed and filed before it can be accepted and/or legally protected. Nothing is ever “automatically copyrighted” because you say it is. Just because you say “ORIJINUL KARAKTURR DO NOT STEEL” does not make it a legally protected copyright.

Unless you can provide documentation (ALL copyrighted works have documentation, or they are not, in fact, copyrighted) proving your claim, fair use still stands, and if you CAN provide documentation, it must have been dated and confirmed before the date it was first put on the internet.

Anubis wrote:
I’m not claiming you ever took anything from me. I’m arguing because, well, I’m better than you. And here’s why:

I don’t think that means what you think it means.

“Joke’s on them, I was only pretending to be retarded”

Skeletor wrote:

Pastaspace wrote:

Implying mods of any other type actually survive
Implying a bunch of active players didn’t decide to make this mod because every other mod was awful

I have to agree. The reason /v/lancer exists is because every single one of the 20+ modding team was sick of how bad and terribly put together every other mod was.

A thousand times this. Again, I’d like to repeat that the sense of entitlement and unwarranted self-importance here is astounding. Is there a legitimate reason why you’re acting like that kid in kindergarten who flipped a #$%% when he was forced to share? Because so far I haven’t heard one. From the start it’s been “DURR HE STOLED TINGS HE NOT 'LOWED TO LETS HURF AND DURF ABOUT IT DEY CANT COME HERE NO MORES” rather than, again, the way it is in EVERY OTHER MODDING COMMUNITY, which is “Oh, you’re gonna edit my mod? Alright, man, that’s cool, just make sure you credit my name in there. So long as others enjoy it that’s good enough for me.”

So what I’m hearing is that you guys seem to have some sort of unwarranted sense of self-importance and that nobody can use resources that you put up on the internet for free if you don’t approve of it first? And that when someone uses said resources that are again free and have no type of security whatsoever, you pitch a fit rather than realize that it doesn’t hurt you at all if they want to use it and that sharing is a good thing? I’m just making sure I understand this correctly, because I’ve seen no other modding community react that way. Everywhere else I’ve been it’s “Oh, you used it without asking? Whatever, just give me credit for it, and have fun.” Also, on occasion a “don’t charge money for it” as well. But never anything like the level of entitlement I’ve seen here.

Skeletor speaks the truth. None of the so-called “stolen” content can be legally copyrighted, as it is a modification, not an original IP.

And when I make a general statement about the last two videos being from Discovery I mean it as a general statement. Not directed at you.

Not so much hitting a nerve as finding it amusing that threatening to not advertise a mod here is laughable to say the least. And way to read the post. “Here’s videos of our past adventures.” Not “Here’s videos of our mod.”

So a site that’s not even in Alexa’s top 1mil isn’t going to advertise /v/Lancer? ONOES, WE ARE DOOMED TO FAILURES AND SHAME. Would you mind sharing how exactly that’s any kind of threat? Because really, I’d be glad to hear it. 4chan is the largest english imageboard around. We’d get more postings in a single thread just advertising on /v/. Our ARCHIVE gets more traffic than this site for god’s sake. Also, the last two videos aren’t using /v/Lancer, they’re using Discovery. Finally, why would we steal from Crossfire? We would only steal from mods that are actually GOOD.