MOTY + USAF = WFT?
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Well in the UK our Military do advertise on TV and magazines.
And I don’t mind it… before you all jump down my throat let me explain something.
I am not military material, never could or would be. However I have a lot of old school friends that are military guys, and my grandad was in WW2 based out in Egypt with the Royal Air Force. So I understand alot about what they do and what they go through.
Now, I dont personally agree with alot of decisions goverments have taken over the last 5 years involving the US and UK military. However, as long as my friends are involved, I will also support them. Not the decisions made, but the people having to carry out their orders.
Not every decision is the right one, but do not blame the people at the end of the command chain. They are doing their job. Just the Police, or Tax collectors or Social Services.
So do I mind the Military advertising in the UK? No I don’t.
No I mind the US Military advertising on MODDB… No I don’t… not as long as the site stays open, stays advertising Mods and gives us a place to advertise Freelancer.
Which is all that should matter.
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May as well copy my post from the other site as I know many do not visit there.
"Not sure what the real problems is but as we have off-topic fora here goes .
We seem to be quite happy with violent, abusive, sexist, racist gameplay on the assumption that the players have the sense to understand and will not then go out and do the things they play.
But the same players will suddenly all be brainwashed and join up when they see sponsorships.
Sounds like a cake and eat it attitude.
Regardless of rights or wrongs with violence, current human nature is dominated by agression and the world revolves around it. The military are societies santisation of the basic problem and also a convenient target.
They are also the first port of call when someone whose views do not fit into your world goes and parks their tank on your lawn."
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sry but i made my decision
I act by principles and not by the amound of money that gets donatedA man of principles well done, I am sure all respect that, I do.
"I may disagree with what you say, but I’ll defend to the death your right to say it”
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Ive been able to get a working compromise with the moddb staff. Agreeing that moddb unfortunatly is now bound to a contract with the US airforce only small changes can be done and already have been done meanwhile. Eventhough these changes still touch the limits of what is acceptable the situation changed to conditions that Im willing to agree with.
moddb statement:
I didn’t expect the response we have received and have taken this on board. In future I will be extremely careful with regards to anything that may question a “certain” individuals ideals and principle.
As my “intervention” in this issue since its beginning has caused the unwanted side effect that a bunch of modding crews (alltogether 23 mods) want to leave moddb and have contacted me to deal with this matter the talking is not over yet. Geez why do i always get in such situations? (no - that was a rethorical question)
Trying to convince those modding crews to stay now that the compromise was done I will also continue my talks with moddb to show them that the best mods are not neccessarily based on main stream games. Maybe it will be possible that next year (next to the not existing military sponsors) the voting will be done a bit different in order to motivate more games (which are not main stream ego shooters) to take part in the MOTY. -
Hm… a lot of posts here - so well everyone has his own opinion thats for sure and i respect them all
Moddb has contract with the USAF as they seems to be the money giver for moddb. its not necessary to support the modding teams directly. If they give money so moddb can buy or hold their servers running then this is support enough. They support moddb so all modding teams can present their work there - what is a good advertising tho.
BTW has any one proved if there is any clause in those contracts that the USAF will mandatory be assigned to the mods which are presented there? Will their logo be part of your presentation sites, will their name be connected with your mods (directly)? Will you receive a part of the money they gave to moddb?
I am not quite sure if withdrawing (in anger and hurry) is the best choice before clearing some of those questions? If moddb is interested to get mods on their site to promote the modders work then there are sure ways to get everything handled - for the interests of everyone^^
And i still don’t see the connection between Freelancer - a space sim - with the USAF. Or have they plans to now make extraterrestrial fights with big space battles against unknown alien races? ROFL… BTW why withdraw now before we know any outcome (or do we know it already)… I just want to say to see this not in anger and make fast decisions about facts that will not become true…
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Lots of posts result in my nasty remark earlier , lol .Well , what i want to say is i didnt knew about those sponsorship before i voted , if i had been aware of it there would be no vote from me as i looked on this site later . At least they should show their sponsors from the beginning or have i overlokked it ?
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Moddb has contract with the USAF as they seems to be the money giver for moddb. its not necessary to support the modding teams directly. If they give money so moddb can buy or hold their servers running then this is support enough. They support moddb so all modding teams can present their work there - what is a good advertising tho.
BTW has any one proved if there is any clause in those contracts that the USAF will mandatory be assigned to the mods which are presented there? Will their logo be part of your presentation sites, will their name be connected with your mods (directly)? Will you receive a part of the money they gave to moddb?
I am not quite sure if withdrawing (in anger and hurry) is the best choice before clearing some of those questions? If moddb is interested to get mods on their site to promote the modders work then there are sure ways to get everything handled - for the interests of everyone^^
It’s really nothing more than a marketing opportunity for the USAF. They have absolutely nothing to do with the handling of mods themselves, the decisions on who wins, etc. To them its just an advertising venue. All you will see is some USAF ads here and there, and nothing beyond that. Its because of this that I just don’t understand why anyone is upset. It is no different from showing ads on a television. The ads have no relation to the actual content of the programs you are watching, they are only there to advertise.
Maybe it will be possible that next year (next to the not existing military sponsors) the voting will be done a bit different in order to motivate more games (which are not main stream ego shooters) to take part in the MOTY.
Again, the sponsors had absolutely nothing to do with the voting process or its results. Even Moddb does not have much to do with the voting process or its results. The votes are set up so that the most votes wins. Thats it. There is no big conspiracy or bias, the gamers of moddb chose what would be listed as Top 100, and what will win mod of the year. These “ego shooters” (A term which I don’t really understand, I assume you mean military style first person shooters. ) are in the Top 100 simply because they are popular mods that many people play.
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the different to an ordinary tv ad is that the tv ad is not presented together with your own mod
I really would have my problem if moddb would start their video presentations of the winner mods showing my mod which is getting introducded with the airforce logo and the line “Crossfire Freelancer mod presented by the US Airforce” (thats just the worst case example)And like i said there is a compromise in order to prevent further troubles. If they are not able or willing stick to that deal they will risk even more troubles.
Again, the sponsors had absolutely nothing to do with the voting process or its results. Even Moddb does not have much to do with the voting process or its results. The votes are set up so that the most votes wins. Thats it. There is no big conspiracy or bias, the gamers of moddb chose what would be listed as Top 100, and what will win mod of the year. These “ego shooters” (A term which I don’t really understand, I assume you mean military style first person shooters. ) are in the Top 100 simply because they are popular mods that many people play.
The intention is to give other genres a better chance since there are many mods out there which dont even register at moddb due to the preferation of these “ego shooters”. Ok the expression ego shooter might not be valid on the international scene… First person shooters then. A few years ago moddb had a different voting structure which gave other genres chances that they dont have now due to the preferation of main stream (quantity instead of quality).
That the awards are only based on the votes is not true. The top100 are based on the votes but there are still editor choice awards which have nothing to do with the number of votes. -
the different to an ordinary tv ad is that the tv ad is not presented together with your own mod
I really would have my problem if moddb would start their video presentations of the winner mods showing my mod which is getting introducded with the airforce logo and the line “Crossfire Freelancer mod presented by the US Airforce” (thats just the worst case example)But that is how it works on television. How many programs do you see that contain the message, “This program brought to you by …” ? Again, I think I’m missing something very fundamental here, because I see that as probably the least “threatening” thing they could do. If they started claiming ownership or started to force mods change their content or direction, then there would be a real issue. But as it stands now, nothing is happening to affect anything. It’s just a logo on a website with some funny promotional writings under it.
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But that is how it works on television. How many programs do you see that contain the message, “This program brought to you by …” ? Again, I think I’m missing something very fundamental here, because I see that as probably the least “threatening” thing they could do. If they started claiming ownership or started to force mods change their content or direction, then there would be a real issue. But as it stands now, nothing is happening to affect anything. It’s just a logo on a website with some funny promotional writings under it.
yes that happens on tv but it only happens if that program is really presented by the company doing the ad (by contract) or because the program is property of the tv channel
There property and direct contracts with the “show” or whatever gets broadcasted is reason which allows such representation lines. But no company owns my mod and no company has any rights on it. And if i remember correctly i have not signed any contracts with the US Airforce yet. -
have you read the previous posts hour?
if so read them againyes i have OP
And you state that you act on principles and that you - no better - your work and the mod should not be connected with the USAF. But are there any clauses that they will add their logo to your site or that they will state “modxy is presented by our beloved forces”… I tried to get the information of the moty pages but there is nothing about it. So do you know for sure that they will add their signatures to your (all here) mods or is it just an assumption?And as long you are the owner of the mod its alone your choice who you allow to be connected with your mod and work and finally name. I only would like to know if your decisions are based on facts or you presume that something bad will happen? (not that I will fight against any of your decision in this case. I only would like to know if there are clauses and how they affect the presented mods there - at least someone on moddb should give those information
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I think its perfectly understandable to have issues with an army placing ads on a page that you like to visit.
I also had issues with that last year, and I have issues with it this year. I dont think an army should place ads on gaming websites. The same I feel about porn ads.
On the other hand Im perfectly fine with ads. Why not get some nice hardware supplier on the boat, like Alienware, Intel etcetcetc… there are loads of potential gaming related sponsors out there. And tbh, having such a military sponsor also discredits the whole site for me. It just feels strange, having a real life war sponsor for fiction games. Thats just wrong IMO.
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have you read the previous posts hour?
if so read them againyes i have OP
And you state that you act on principles and that you - no better - your work and the mod should not be connected with the USAF. But are there any clauses that they will add their logo to your site or that they will state “modxy is presented by our beloved forces”… I tried to get the information of the moty pages but there is nothing about it. So do you know for sure that they will add their signatures to your (all here) mods or is it just an assumption?And as long you are the owner of the mod its alone your choice who you allow to be connected with your mod and work and finally name. I only would like to know if your decisions are based on facts or you presume that something bad will happen? (not that I will fight against any of your decision in this case. I only would like to know if there are clauses and how they affect the presented mods there - at least someone on moddb should give those information
)I dont think that the airforce and moddb would let me look into their contracts… but upto now at least 100 mods were presented with the airforce logo on the top
and my decisions are always based on facts and the resulting presume that something bad will happen because of the facts… just alone a giant flamewar at moddb and the modding crews which want to leave moddb show how bad the situation can get -
At the end of the day it’s your choice. And Yours alone.
I didn’t see any edits made to the site JUST to accommodate the USAF logo, just a div tag.
I didn’t see anything where they said that the winners would have to do anything with the USAF, and to my knowledge they can’t advertise without express permission from the Server host/Admin Team.I’m not trying to change your decision, it’s not my place, I’m just saying what I as a Human Being can see.
If people are prepared to leave Moddb to make a statement, then their loss. For their sake I really hope that they find somewhere else to find the materiel they need to keep going. Unless it’s a HL mod, there’s enough of those already. -
No - its the players loss… and it would be even worse if it would be FL mods.
I wonder why people am not able to see that mods are presented together with such a sponsor logo on the MOTY (at no point of time ive claimed anything about the standard mod sites). But in fact there was/is a MOTY site with 100 mods and the sponsor logo which was telling “presented by”
Even the moddb staff did agree meanwhile that it was a big mistake to get such a sponsor and that this wont happen again. That being said and with the promised changes I personally dont see a big reason for me to explain the situation over and over again. I will do further discussions with moddb and the modding teams involved.
