UberDeux
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Yes, have to agree with many here, wish you the best of luck but i can’t see it happening. I’m not trying to be the harbinger of doom here either, i really do wish you the best with getting the source but i very much doubt anything will happen.
I’ve seen and heard all this a lot over the last few years, bit like the rich dude who came on here a while back saying he was going to finance an FL movie… still waiting on that btw
M$ are not ones for releasing source code, not to say they haven’t done it before but i think just out of spite, they want this one dead and buried and are hoping we’ll all just go away. We are tolerated simply because the community still brings in the odd new player who actually buys a copy of FL, therefore making M$ some cash.
We are tolerated because what we do is for free and as i pointed out in a thread on here somewhere, M$ don’t mind us modifying FL to our hearts content as long as it’s non-profit. They’ve stated that on record.
As to the source, more chance of winning the lottery.
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Sledge, my views (and mine only, I’m entitled to them under British Law and Constitution, so don’t flame me or I will snort out smoke and fire and brimstone in response!!)…
First…
We don’t need the source. A lot of stuff has been worked out, and what’s missing? Dynamic economy? Comments welcome from those working on that.Second…
I think the development of FL has come so far ONLY because it was such a challenge to do.Third…
When you try to compose a larger organisation it becomes much more difficult to get a direction, there is more resistance until you realise you must become a dictatorship to get things driven and done - and then it fails because of revolters!Fourth…
Smaller groups are more successful in making a mod, three to four is good. When more come into it there is more confusion and less clear view of objectives, and more delay. I made ours alone, it was a struggle let me tell you, but I can’t (and probably will refuse to) work with more than 2 others even if I have the chance.Fifth…
Good luck with your ideas, but if you succeed I also fear once you do then you or your successors will want to control that source as much as MS does today. No good to the community.Sixth…
My beard is longer than yours I think. Well it’s definitely greyer than I would like it, anyway! That probably acounts for my grumpiness and scepticism and cynicism and other scissorisms… or lack thereof, probably accounting for the length and greyness aforementioned. Anyhow…End of Offensive Views!
Viva FL!
Viva Torres!
Viva El Revolucion!
Viva Havana Cigarros!
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**Dynamic economy for Hook, hmm, would like to see that and add manufacturing to it….
As far as the FL source goes, good luck, MS used alot of stuff available for non-commercial use which they did not pay for, for example something Im working on, SUR files. The sur stuff is based off of QHull which is freely available for non-commercial purposes, FL has it built into the code, do a text search for hull. You will even see stuff for delaney triangulation.
Also, the Havok stuff, the licensing for free use is outrageous… That alone will cost you a fortune.
If you get it though, count me in, I will do some upgrades most definately.**
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Maybe you guys should consider joining the “board”. Afterall he made this topic to convince you to join, hi5s wont get the code from MS, a team will
Unfortunately I don’t have what it takes to be part of the team but I know for sure some of you here do have. Just my 2 cents 
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Well, been a while since i heard the name UberLancer.
anyway, a few points.
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I would not even bother talking to M$ about FL Source code. Why? Because they have no freakin clue where it is or whom actually owns distribution rights. Yes M$ has rights to the FL name, ect … but the source ? they don’t no if they do or not or even where the source code went too. How do i know this? well i went through the channels, talked with a guy in MS Games Studio. Simpley put: They lost it.
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Continueing point one: Even if they somehow managed to find it, you will get something like this: We are not in the position to release the Source Code for Freelancer at this time or any time for the forseable future.
Your best bet, start with a new game engine. And if interested you can reach me via the SW:WT Forum, or for those here that are part of the dev team on the SW:WT Dev forums as well. I have a solution that may interest you, Still a bit away from being production ready but slowly getting there.
Cheers all, and good luck with your endeavor on this project.
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J.Walker wrote:
How do i know this? well i went through the channels, talked with a guy in MS Games Studio. Simpley put: They lost it.Well, in this case …… how should I put it … THIS SUCKS ! :evil:
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OPR8R wrote:
Despite all facts and my experience with Microsoft Game Studios over the past 10 years I wish you the best of luck.
We already had 2 projects with the word “uber” in the name, both times hyped, both times praised to high heaven, both times questioned in public by myself (out of experience) and both times failed. Probably 3 is the lucky number (in one or another way), I dont know.What I know for sure is that saying “Hey I want to create a new FL project and I have the FL engine” is easier and more productive than saying “Hey I have an idea for a project, all we need is to get the FL engine”. Probably it is best to get the working material before you search for ppl to work with it? Just an idea. Maybe Im wrong and 3 is really a lucky number.
Actually that is the point. This “uber” is focused on securing the big prize, then getting to work on it. Unfortunately not a lot of people are going to join a “business” forum, so the creative aspect will be integrated. We can brainstorm now, and maybe even start putting together some ideas in some dev mods to see how they look/work out. But the mission of the project is now the code.
StarTrader wrote:
Sledge, my views (and mine only, I’m entitled to them under British Law and Constitution, so don’t flame me or I will snort out smoke and fire and brimstone in response!!)…Dude, don’t even start with me. I also run a political forum that can get pretty rough sometimes (pm me if you want to know the site). I carry my opinions right on my sleeve. You have to have a thick skin to do that, I can take a butt whipping like a man. I would NEVER take criticism the wrong way (unless it’s malicious).
StarTrader also wrote:
Third…
When you try to compose a larger organisation it becomes much more difficult to get a direction, there is more resistance until you realise you must become a dictatorship to get things driven and done - and then it fails because of revolters!A corporate business environment can be cut-throat. Not saying Uber will be, but if you don’t show results, the shareholders (in this case, the community) will throw your butt out. The CEO is the driving force. If he doesn’t perform, he doesn’t have a job. It’s not a dictatorship, but usually the CEO wants to keep his job. Which usually means do what he says or go find another job somewhere.
StarTrader wrote:
Fourth…
Smaller groups are more successful in making a mod, three to four is good. When more come into it there is more confusion and less clear view of objectives, and more delay. I made ours alone, it was a struggle let me tell you, but I can’t (and probably will refuse to) work with more than 2 others even if I have the chance.The actual mod/dev team will be a unit under the control of the Operations Officer (COO). It will be as big or small as the COO deems necessary to get the job done.
StarTrader wrote:
Fifth…
Good luck with your ideas, but if you succeed I also fear once you do then you or your successors will want to control that source as much as MS does today. No good to the community.If we’re successful, the “owners” of the copyright will be the UberLancer organization, overseen by the Board of Directors, elected by the Freelancer Community. In other words, you guys will own it.
StarTrader wrote:
Viva Havana Cigarros!
I’m particular to Rocky Patels myself.
J.Walker wrote:
2) Continueing point one: Even if they somehow managed to find it, you will get something like this: We are not in the position to release the Source Code for Freelancer at this time or any time for the forseable future.We don’t plan on “asking” for it. We plan on either acquiring it or gaining control of it. There is more than one way to accomplish that. We can negotiate a sale, we can gain a majority in whoever/whatever holds the copyright, we can license it, etc.
On another note, the project hasn’t “officially” kicked off yet. I’ve been working on the site and putting together the framework for the organization. The capstone of the initiation will be when I post a pic of the business license with “UberLancer” as the business name. For those who are concerned about ego’s and dictatorships, etc., as soon as we have a working board and defined bylaws we can incorporate the business as “UberLancer, Inc.”. It’s not very expensive to do that, btw, and it must be done in order to file for a 501
(7) exemption. Once we have our incorporation and 501, UberLancer officially becomes a public company. -
We plan on either acquiring
Really not sure i like that. SO much trouble can come from that little statement.
We can negotiate a sale
Well, not really sure they are interested, when i was going for source code i was going an for a development licence and had financial backing for the purchase of a licence. Yes i had the money behind me to buy it, but they simply did not know where it was, and were not willing to do anything about it.
I am not trying to spoil your parade here. Just providing some facts from my experience in this very topic. Now, if you wanted to get rights to ‘use’ Freelancer universe and content then that is a different thing all together. Then you could use that coupled with a more modern game engine to produce a proper game rather than using a game engine that is 8+ years outdated, also, the licencing fee they would want for the engine alone is not worth it. Especially considering you can get a killer commercial game engine for thousands less and have a way better game in the end with a mixture of more and less work on the engine than if you were to use the Freelancer Code Base. Again 8+ years outdated code, why use it???
modding FL is one thing, and i love doing that. But not sure if the effort is worth it to recode and make modern when you can as i mentioned use a newer engine.
Like i said, not trying to be a downer here, i always like the idea of a FL2, but at this point i see no reason to use something that is so out of date it would take longer to upgrade than to make an existing newer engine do the same job way better and nicer than the FL engine ever could.
anyway, i have an offer on the plate, talk with SolCommand i gave him the details in a PM yesterday. It stands if you are interested.
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PM ? Sorry m8 but I don’t remember any pm here.
About the newer engine, you do have a valid point there.
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Actually, I dont think the FL engine is as bad as you make it sound. Sure, its dated.
Yet, it is very polished and just for the purpose of a space sim.The graphics engine can easily be upgraded. DX8 to DX9 is not a big deal.
Also, on the multiplayer. With modifications to the source to make it more thread safe, the MP design can allow for pretty large servers (multiple systems = multiple threads).
And there are a lot other things that could get improved and fixed and discovered (speaking of file formats).
Anyways, what I want to say is, the FL engine is already working really good for what it is supposed to. Just needs to be upgraded to serve todays needs (multithreading, better graphics, etc).
You would still spend a ridiculous amount of work on a new commercial engine to get the FL feeling just right. -
J.Walker wrote:
Sledge wrote:
We plan on either acquiringReally not sure i like that. SO much trouble can come from that little statement.
We’re talking business here. Not ware!z. Corporations “acquire” assets all the time. It’s what they do and it’s perfectly legal.
As for the “code lost” thing. If we can simply get Microsoft to agree to allow us to distribute the game as freeware then the community wins. What’s kept the community alive the past few years is multiplayer. If the servers can make available the game (with their mod pre-installed) as a free download, the game will enjoy a resurgence like never imagined, possibly even greater than the hey-days.
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Don’t think that was Walker’s point, Sledge. shrug
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Maybe you could help me understand?
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I’ll let Walker speak for himself on this one, but I’d just fear that we’d be trading a master for another. If we lose control on the license for a reason or another, we could end up worse than we currently are.
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ok all i mean is that you may end up spending the next several months trying to get anything out of MS regarding FL. That is all really.
Now about he ‘acquire’ thing, it is a sticky word. Be careful with it, it can and has been taken the wrong way in the past and has caused allot of trouble.
I want to see this idea succeed man, i do. An FL 2 would simply be awesome.
i do not mean to accuse or otherwise insult or demean the idea. i wish it success, if you can get anything from MS in regard to FL cudos man.
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I mentioned an offer, if you are interested in reading or hearing about the game engine in the offer let me know and i will post the info about it.
cheers
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I fear I’m still not making the intentions of the project clear. I apologize.
First, let me step back from the “acquire” terminology. We all know it may very well be a pipe dream. No corporation worth it’s salt is going to transfer ownership of an asset without substantial compensation. I don’t think Uber, no matter how much enthusiasm the community shows for the project, will be able to come up with the millions of dollars it will likely take. What we can do is organize into an entity that Microsoft will actually talk to. Even if they don’t have the code, perhaps we can get them to “officially” turn a blind eye to our distributing the game as freeware.
Once we can get the game out, we’ll see a massive spike in players. Has anyone heard of a game called Hardwar? It’s a first person space sim, but based on the surface of an asteroid and has flight sim characteristics. It’s a really fun game, I’ve played it lots, is multiplayer, and will never die. Why? Take a look. Granted, Software Refinery no longer exists, but usually when a company closes all their assets go to the creditors. Hardwar is still “owned” by someone. They just don’t care if it’s given away.
That’s where we need to be.
