If u were writing FL2, what would u add?

LancerSolurus

Crazy

Don’t sell it to Microsoft Games
weeellll if they offer a nice mil for it, I might.

BBalazs
Yes, I want those to, I may make a mini ST mod to play with and without beam weapons it would not be right

Bas
1 - I will look around, hadn’t considered that option, if you know of some please post a linky
2 - explained in the response to Cannon
3 - interesting possibility, for the moment weps are either guns or torps

Timmy51m
1 - maybe in a couple of years, I don’t have DX11 yet
2 - very good question, modding is the main aspect focused upon by most of us (me included) but the rest is just as valid. At this time it seems I’m the only one working on the other parts. Sol’s models did help in the content area but that is just a single part of the equation. You are welcome to help out if you wish…
3 - open source - maybe in a few years, I would like to make a little bit of money for the amount of work I’ve done on it. Don’t worry though, modding is fully supported, the client is free (server isn’t) so SP mods can easily be made and distributed.

Nova
1 - working space factories - yes
2 - factory cargo limited - yes
3 - produce stuff - yes
4 - require resources - yes, up to 4 types per item, a specific quantity and usage settings (usage is so I could add artifacts and use those without destroying the artifact, ie quantity = 1, usage = 0 )

Chips will get his own post next, trying to answer all of them so be patient

LancerSolurus

Chips
1 - yes
2 - one of the research tree items is a mining robot, each one gives u the ability to extract more rare elements (all 118 elements are in the game)
3 - this is a great idea, I have considered jammers before, will flesh it out to avoid any ability of abusing it
3a - since targetting is ranged based this one would be easy
3b - kinda like a fake driver’s license, interesting
3c - lane hacking, thats a possibility. I still haven’t decided if I even want to include trade lanes. I may add trade lanes as an optional feature
4 - good idea and make it where players can hire them as well
5 - that is intended, I want the NPCs to be able to do anything the players can
6 - I havent made it to the random missions part yet but I will add these to the list of mission types. Only the structures have been added so far, have to add the bulletin board stuff first (no missions without it)
7 - thats a good idea and could be implemented as part of the conversation system (player/NPC interaction is handled here). This could be extended to sending the call to players in the same area.
8 - each item in the universe can have an owner. Until the player actually owns a base they will be limited to trading, mining.
8a - license to trade on a base, since it’s always in 3d mode this wouldn’t work unless I forced the player to be at a base. Hard to explain but suffice it to say GE has no rooms like FL does.
9 - this will a part of the game
10 - this just takes time to get it right
11 - good idea to split it between good/bad factions
12 - will be part of the BBS system

LancerSolurus

Moonhead
1 - it has that already, need to make a video showing it
2 - involutary jump holes, not a bad idea
3 - this would be limited to player create jumpgates
4 - moving clouds is easy
5 - mission variety is planned

Timmy51m
1 - jumpdrives may be added later, dropped in this version, it is limited to jump gates/holes atm
2 - tractor beams and loot beams are different, loot beams are used for beaming in loot only, tractors are for towing since ship salvage is part of the game
3 - upgrades are handled thru the technology tree (research)
4 - maybe, not a priority
5 - modular ships, can’t model so I doubt that will happen, plus consider the amount of time to cover every configuration of every ship in the game
6 - a fuel system will only be reimplemented if I reimplement the jump drives

Mini_Me

Chips:

However, I can’t help but feel one or two (such as seeing from security feeds?) is irrelevant and something that won’t ever get used (what is the advantage it offers? Being able to see…the space?).

Seeing as it’s going to be a bit more player faction oriented than FL, it makes sense to have a better means of command and control to orchestrate system / base / resource defense. Some well placed comm sats could provide advance warning of the attacker’s route of approach. Conversely, these comm sats need to be taken out to ensure attackers go unidentified in faction and number, thus it provides a little more strategy to faction wars.

Allies gathering resources in an area monitored by you come under attack. Switching over to a live feed could help assess what kind of a response needs to be sent to secure the area, rather than rely on reports from those under fire and busy trying to keep their lives / cargo safe. Same as above, pie-rats need to locate and avoid or take down comm sats to surgically get in, gank cargo, and get out before responders arrive. Or perhaps provide decoys to lay a trap for responders thinking only a couple ships are attacking.

Cap ship / Base drone. Why not send a drone to scout the situation ahead, rather than stumble into an ambush? No weapons, low life, speedy, replenish-able via manufacturing / trade. If base monitoring is part of the game (which can be sort of a game within a game - monitoring stock prices and resource levels, assigning / hiring NPC convoys to fill orders, etc), it would be nice to be able to monitor trade routes to ensure safe passage of your high value cargo in and out.

There are plenty of applications for having a changeable viewpoint. Plus it fits in if multiple players per ship becomes doable.

Moonhead

LancerSolurus wrote:
Moonhead
1 - it has that already, need to make a video showing it

You mean the Economy, or Gravity??

If you mean the Economy: is that downloadable as a module?

If you mean Gravity: I know there’s the interference drag, but it’s not quite the same. It’s not directional imho (although I’ve not experimented wildly with it. To be honest, I wouldn’t even know how the format is, without looking it up)

LancerSolurus wrote:
3 - this would be limited to player create jumpgates

I don’t understand what you mean… In fact I don’t know what you’re refering to… Rep-dependent Jump Gates? I imagine these would work analog to the stuff you can only buy if you’re friendly to a certain degree (“You need to be on friendlier terms to buy this item.”)

From your responses, I understand you’re really working on all of this?? Will this be a new prog altogether? Or an expansion kit, like a heavy mod?

LancerSolurus

Mini-Me
1 - radar sensor drones would be very easy to add, the way it will be made anyway is that what u own allows you to see anything around it out to it’s max sensor range. The actual handling of your empire will be done thru the local starmap and galaxy map. The implementation will most likely resemble the Armada style (see TOW’s latest tactical map video for an example, it’s exactly like the game Armada I & II)
2 - automated drone will be part of the game, it’s what player’s will mainly use for exploring. GE 2 had 10000 stars so this was the only real option of exploring the entire galaxy. GE 3 has considerably less since the galaxy isn’t procedurably generated.
3 - the rest is SOP (standard operating procedure) in the GE series including fleet control, resource and base management, etc

Moonhead
1 - I meant gravity.

Unfortunately you seem to be under the impression this is about the current FL game engine, it is not. It is about that if you had the ability to actually write your own space game in the same genre as FL then what would you add. Please click the GE link in my sig to see what this is about. I am writing just such a game an like to hear my fellow FL users ideas on what they would add even if it isn’t possible to reasonably add.

2 - rep dependent jump gate, for example, the Corsairs owned a jump gate and locked it to only get used by Corsairs, so if you weren’t a Corsair the gate won’t work for u.

Nova

1 - working space factories - yes
2 - factory cargo limited - yes
3 - produce stuff - yes
4 - require resources - yes, up to 4 types per item, a specific quantity and usage settings (usage is so I could add artifacts and use those without destroying the artifact, ie quantity = 1, usage = 0 )

O.o HOW???

LancerSolurus

Well to explain the coding would take forever, I will instead explain a little bit about how the this version works. It will be fine tuned once the NPC become a factor.

First off I decided to set the economy off into it’s own domain. This means it can be used across multiple programs, in this case both the client and server. This way both sides will have the exact same economy rules and abilities.

The main part of it is the markets. Everything dealing with cargo handling, trading, manufacturing, tech development needs a place to be stored. This includes the player inventory, which means the player could also manufacture stuff.

Commodities are exactly like in the real world, anything developed, built or picked up can be traded since they are stored in the market.

Prices are based on how much is at the base. Once NPC trading is added, supply and demand will influence the prices. Prices are adjusted at a set time period and slowly change in price.

Markets have a maximum storage amount. Any manufacturing is stopped just before it completes if the cargo capacity will overflow if it is finished.

The main reason for the 4 requirement part is tech development. Alot of the items in the game require specific ores and technology to be built. Some will require artifacts in your possesion as well. This is how the tech tree is integrated into the markets.

Nova

Erm… you talking about FL?

LancerSolurus

No, Im talking about what you wished FL had but doesn’t. Consider editing a HUD layout in FL, what a pain in the backside. In my game it’s as simple as any INI entry, you tell it what to display and where it’s positioned, with additional font control and color as optional features. Plus widesceeen is fully supported since the hud items are positioned in parts of the screen, IE upper-left, center, bottom middle, etc.

I have modded FL for many years and know of many places it should have been fixed, since Im writing the game, I can make it work like I think it should.

Chips

That’s where the title sort of misled me I questioned the use of external cameras and whatnot as, to me, I thought this was a “what should FL have had”, and not “If you had your ideal space strategy game where you can command dozens of players in intergalactic warfare…”

To me, FL is near perfect in many respects - there are deficiencies, but overall it is one of the best games I’ve played.

It’s simple.
It works like a dream online (no levelling up for months, no major issues or being forced into roleplay roles etc).
You could play for 5 minutes and still have massive fun, or you could play for hours. You didn’t have to invest hours in order to enjoy the game - 20 mins could see you across the universe.

This is, along with the thread title, why my post features on aspects of FL that were deficient.

I can understand the focus onto some sort of command and coordinate lots of player features - all I will say is if this game is heading into a real nice release realm, please don’t forget us folks that like a casual gameplay and so on.

Moonhead

LancerSolurus wrote:

It is about that if you had the ability to actually write your own space game in the same genre as FL then what would you add. Please click the GE link in my sig to see what this is about. I am writing just such a game an like to hear my fellow FL users ideas on what they would add even if it isn’t possible to reasonably add.

[…]

I have modded FL for many years and know of many places it should have been fixed, since Im writing the game, I can make it work like I think it should.

Very cool!!!

Does it use .ini files in a similar way as FL? Maybe even the same way?

LancerSolurus

Chips the game will be quite similar to FL in many respects. You don’t have to role play if you don’t want to. Also a server owner can force either PvP style or RP style by adjusting what is bought and sold. For PvP they could simply limit a player to a single ship. For RP they can simply leave it as is. As for myself I prefer a mixture of both. I want to keep the same playability that FL has but extend it in many ways such as having FPS play as well (see the video in the GE3 thread). I won’t forget the casual gamer, not planning on wrecking it like the JGE team did. The main parts will still exist such as trading, mining, exploration and NPC fighting.

Moonbeam yes, almost everything is INI based, here is an example of a light in a scene

[light]
nickname = spawn_sun
model = white_light
pos = 0,3000000,-7000000
range = 50000000
spin = 0,1,0
flare = default_flare
color = 290,290,290	; normal range = 0 - 255, its a float so you can oversaturate it as done here
;ambient = 64,64,64
;vel = 0,500,0

OutCast

There’re two ways i personally see.
One is “EVE Online way” which includes an open market, manufacturing, system sovereignty, station building, etcetctetc.
Another is more classic-FL-shootery-style which is basically not far from original FL, but with good tools for automated “deathmatches” between groups of people that eventually get won by some group and don’t last forever.

And better graphics and UI with ways for modding/improvement, obviously.

edit:
Oh, and eve or similar ship fitting mechanics for both cases.

NeXoSE

If that’s true, i want the engine & engine tool License to allow me create my own game and share it freely and free.

And i want the game engine support:

Database based data store(to support complex function like station cargo data and factions data, char data and more.) and player based economy system is good for me. Player production system is good, and ….

Well, my idea: just support all EVE functions to the game, and without the dull battle system for fighter.

AND MUST include a Easy Structure to mod the game.

In real, so i don’t care about the planet land system. Almost all planet in space is not good for human, we just need few planet to “land”.

And as DwnUndr says: I like:

glitch-free pathing system
built-in anti-cheat
and
MMORPG
Good graph
Using double to store cash and system range and more large number.

AND

Don’t sell it to Microsoft Games (by Crazy) LOL i like this one function LOL

NeXoSE

Uh, I readed the full topic, and looks you looking for idea for your game? That’s alright but …. Can we have authorization to use the engine?

This is my idea if you really think about:
I recommend you use database to store anything, include system data, base data, player data, market data, traffic data and more and more. Because data in database can be edit Real-time and Simple.

System can be change by player’s action. For exp: If player destroye a base, this base will take sometime and something to restore or be destroyed permanently.
Player can build base in any system (You can set a number limit for it, or use a sovereignty system to limit it)
Dead punishment, Like EVE. But i don’t like clone system.
Skill system is not need. It’s just for commerce game and wasting your time.
“Infinite” map size so we can add system freely. Use map like EVE.
Add all unfinished Freelancer function: Cloak, Jump etc.
Good graphic, better than Freelancer at least.
“Limitless” Vehicle, Equipment class.
System security level
Free PRG function. Player can create a function, and with NPC support (NPC can join that group if it popular)
Add things using the real size.
Strong Anit-Cheat system
Player register system so players will not care about how to remember MPID.

LancerSolurus

Outcast I’ve never played EVE so I don’t have a clue what you mean. By what you described though some of those aspects will be in the game. The main goal is to keep the player immersed in staying in their character. Being able to control a civilization will be earned, not given to the player when first started.

The player’s will be able to conquer others but the downside is that they control the more unruly the population will become. This will create a cap on the size of any specific faction or clan. No server ever needs a faction so powerful it can’t be defeated.

Better graphics, yes indeed, it’s a full HLSL 3.0 shader implementation. Since the shader is a .fx file it can be modified easily. There are 2 shaders so far, the main one and the one for mesh cloning. The main one supports a base texture, glow map, specular map, normal map (bumps), a detail map or a triple masked 3 detail mapping (these 2 r exclusive, as in one or the other). The clone shader only supports a base and glow texture. Once I finalize the main shader I will add those features to the clone shader.

NeXoSE
1 - the SP side of the game is free so you are free to pass around any mods for SP mode
2 - if you mean SQL, not going to happen, SQL is way to slow for a real time game
3 - never played EVE
4 - you also need to mine planets, not just travel around on them
5 - easy mod structure, that is subjective on a person to person basis
6 - pathing will be based on A* which gives fairly good results
7 - anticheat, yes
8 - MMORPG - max is 256 players atm
9 - good graph?
10 - cash is stored as a 64 bit unsigned number, which is a maximum of $18,446,744,073,709,551,615, plenty?
11 - if they offered a million, I would have to consider it

NeXoSE

Hehe, i think i will lost many interest if it cannot be mod for MP.
Almost all SQL server will give response in 0.5s even mysql. It’s fast than any file handle if you have many sessions. And note that you can load all data to RAM then update it.
You should try that. EVE is a very good space game if you don’t care about the combat system.
Mine not mean land. You should know even in our solar system only one planet can make life sustain. If you want to mine, just build a station in space and keep the station running.
I like this
I believe this not actually a max number. Hey, why don’t give a Free 256 players permission and keep 1024 players for pay?
Yes, updated graphic to support DX9,10 and 11?
Not only cash. But also something like pos we headache about LOL.
Don’t give a undervalued value for yourself. I believe almost people here don’t want to see after years some people petition for Galaxy Empire’s Source Code LOL.

BTW: Hey, If that’s true, you successfully developed Galaxy Empire, long years before you get bored, want to close the game to make zone for other your game, some people petition for Galaxy Empire’s Source Code, will you give the source code?

BTW2: Topic Hijack: LS, i still cannot get go with curve creation. Maybe i using a wrong calc? can you send me one or upload a good one to DB please?

LancerSolurus

The MP side will be moddable as well but the server isn’t free. If you own a server you can mod it however you want.

256 players is the limit right now, I will be modifying the code to use dynamic arrays soons so it will depend on the amount of memory on the server.

Supporting the max in DX9 for now, not everyone has Vista or Win 7 yet.

GE will most likely become a freeware product after a few years, in the mean time only the server will cost money.

Curve calcs?

NeXoSE

Hey, you skip the database block. Just think about it.

A dynamic universe better than everything, and database is the way, file not. Take look EVE, it’s using Oracle, and for your game, any SQL server may good enough.