Encounter does not appear in zone

StarTrader

Can you post the parent zone too.

And is encounter area_defend declared in an {EncounterParameters} declaration at the top of the system .ini file?

robocop

yes, and yes

[SystemInfo]
space_color = 0, 0, 0
local_faction = fc_or_grp

[EncounterParameters]
nickname = area_trade_armored
filename = missions\encounters\area_trade_armored.ini

[EncounterParameters]
nickname = area_scout
filename = missions\encounters\area_scout.ini

[EncounterParameters]
nickname = area_assault
filename = missions\encounters\area_assault.ini

[EncounterParameters]
nickname = area_defend <= encounter parameter
filename = missions\encounters\area_defend.ini

It’s not really a ‘parent’ zone per se, the zone in question is just in an area of space that is covered by
this larger zone:

[Zone]
nickname = Zone_St01_pop_ambient_St01_01
pos = -2682, 0, -1072
rotate = 0, 35, 0
shape = ELLIPSOID
size = 23069, 16631, 16631
sort = 51
toughness = 19
density = 4
repop_time = 25
max_battle_size = 3
pop_type = fc_or_grp, single_base_unlaw
relief_time = 15
faction_weight = fc_or_grp, 10
encounter = area_defend, 19, 0.2 <= these work
faction = fc_or_grp, 1
encounter = area_bh_assault, 19, 0.2 <= as do these
faction = gd_bh_grp, 1

The following zone is within the zone in question (Zone_St01_01_asteroid_exclusion):

[zone]
nickname = Zone_St01_01_exclusion
pos = 2154, 0, -1879
shape = SPHERE
size = 8000
property_flags = 65536
property_fog_color = 40, 85, 70
edge_fraction = 0.2

? Offline

Someone correct me if i’m wrong here, encounter zones can’t be within encounter zones? That’s what i’ve always been led to believe. So if you have a large encounter zone and nest a smaller one inside, it doesn’t work.

robocop

Well, the DSE armored transport encounters show up and they’re in the same zone.
Do you know if you can put multiple encounters of the same type within a zone but with different levels?
I tried it and it still wasn’t working.

StarTrader

OK Thanks.

Glad to know the Order is working in the large zone.

Gibbon might be right.

If not then I think it’s because your density (ship limit) for the large zone is already being filled (remember it’s the population for the entire zone and it is 23000 x 16000 x 16000 so you won’t necessarily see the ships spawned in it, they can be anywhere in the zone if your visibility and/or spawn distance limit is high they will not be destroyed when out of real sight).

So because the large zone is at population limits, spawning for the small zone can’t be allowed.

I think adding population_additive = true will fix it.

This will allow the density of both zones to be filled.

Also since you have more than one faction in the area, your pop_type may need to be other than single_base_xxx - I haven’t tested these to see what they do, and so I usually use “pop_type = background”.

Yours:
[Zone]
nickname = Zone_St01_pop_ambient_St01_01
…
max_battle_size = 3
pop_type = fc_or_grp, single_base_unlaw

Mine:
[Zone]
nickname = Zone_St01_pop_ambient_St01_01
…
max_battle_size = 3
pop_type = background
population_additive = true

and…
yours:
[zone]
nickname = Zone_St01_01_asteroid_exclusion
…
max_battle_size = 3

Mine:
[zone]
nickname = Zone_St01_01_asteroid_exclusion
…
max_battle_size = 3
pop_type = background
population_additive = true

FYI - here are the options for pop_type:

(faction), (faction), base_cluster_law
(faction), base_cluster_law
(faction), jumpgate
(faction), single_base_law
(faction), single_base_law, jumpgate
(faction), single_base_unlaw
attack_patrol
background
exclusion
extend_law
field_patrol
gd_z_grp, freeport_base
jumpgate
lane_patrol
lootable_core_field
lootable_field
major_tradelane
mining_path
minor_tradelane
nonlootable_ast_field
nonlootable_core_ast_field
single_base_law
trade_path
trade_path, field_patrol
Waypoint
wormhole

robocop

I tried those changes, no joy.
I’m at a loss because the DSE encounters in that zone are working just fine. That tells me the zone is fine. The area_defends work with the level 19 NPCs, so I know area_defend.ini is all right.
The only thing left is the level 15 order ships, but they’re added to npcships.ini as well as the faction in faction_props.ini.

Tis a puzzlement.

StarTrader

OK, the difference between the 2 difficulty levels is the ship:

d15-17 = or_elite

and
d18 & d19 = or_elite_msn01

Can you see the differences between these 2 models in your shiparch.ini? Do they both exist?

And the pilots:

d15-17:
pilot = pilot_order_hard

d18 & d19:
pilot = pilot_order_ace

Chips

You tried lowering DSE to 15 and seeing if they still appear?

Then try lowering your ambient/background pop to lvl 15 - what now? Now increase your small zone to lvl 19 for order, what now?

Experiment a bit…

VNM51

Try what Chips wrote. I had same problem before, and the priority was the key. First, the top level will appear like 19, then 18…etc, but there is a connection with the ship classes as well. You can either increase the level of the order to the top, and reduce the level of the others, or you can make an other zone with the order only, and we will see.

robocop

I will try these suggestions, thanks.
I’ve verified the pilot and ship’s existence so I don’t think they’re the prob.

I do see a number of WARNING: EqObj::use_item() couldn’t find target item on Client request.

I’ll have to check all the edits for the 11teenth time…

robocop

Well, I just tried something else…
I changed the faction from fc_or_grp to gd_z_grp and what to my wondering eyes should appear? Level 15 zoners in the zone that I want level 15 order ships to appear.

So, either there’s something wrong with the pilot, ship, and loadout, or the zone doesn’t like having 2 levels of the same faction in it.

Chips

robocop wrote:
Well, I just tried something else…
I changed the faction from fc_or_grp to gd_z_grp and what to my wondering eyes should appear? Level 15 zoners in the zone that I want level 15 order ships to appear.

So, either there’s something wrong with the pilot, ship, and loadout, or the zone doesn’t like having 2 levels of the same faction in it.

Did you try changing the ambient (large) zone to 15 and the inner to 19?

robocop

working on it as we speak…

The zones are structured thusly:

Planet Toledo
surrounded by death zone: zone_st01_order_planet_death

[zone]
nickname = Zone_St01_order_planet_death
pos = -589, 0, -2712
shape = SPHERE
size = 2075
damage = 2000000

inside: zone_st01_01_exclusion

[zone]
nickname = Zone_St01_01_exclusion
pos = -589, 0, -2712
shape = SPHERE
size = 8000
property_flags = 65536
property_fog_color = 40, 85, 70
edge_fraction = 0.2

inside: zone_st01_01_asteroid_exclusion

[zone]
nickname = Zone_St01_01_asteroid_exclusion
pos = -589, 0, -2712
sort = 51
toughness = 19
density = 5
repop_time = 25
max_battle_size = 3
relief_time = 15
encounter = area_defend, 15, 0.4
faction = fc_or_grp, 1
encounter = area_trade_armored, 19, 0.6
faction = co_me_grp, 1
shape = SPHERE
size = 10000
property_flags = 131072

inside zone: nickname = Zone_St01_pop_ambient_St01_01
[Zone]
nickname = Zone_St01_pop_ambient_St01_01
pos = -2682, 0, -1072
rotate = 0, 35, 0
shape = ELLIPSOID
size = 23069, 16631, 16631
sort = 51
toughness = 15
density = 4
repop_time = 25
max_battle_size = 3
pop_type = background
population_additive = true
relief_time = 15
faction_weight = fc_or_grp, 10
encounter = area_defend, 19, 0.2
faction = fc_or_grp, 1
encounter = area_bh_assault, 19, 0.2
faction = gd_bh_grp, 1

A couple things occurred to me while I was checking everything again.

One, the zone_st01_01_asteroid exclusion zone defines a hole in the asteroid field.
zone_st01_01_exclusion isn’t really an exclusion zone and should perhaps be an ambient zone instead. Perhaps the encounters should be happening in an ambient or a pop zone. Going to try that as well…

robocop

OK, here are the pertinent files along with the changes we discussed. Still no level 15 order ships…

from faction_props.ini
[FactionProps]
affiliation = fc_or_grp
legality = unlawful
nickname_plurality = singular
msg_id_prefix = gcs_refer_faction_fc_or
jump_preference = jumphole
npc_ship = fc_or_elite_d15-17 <== here’s the ship
npc_ship = fc_or_elite2_d18
npc_ship = fc_or_elite2_d19
npc_ship = Liberty_Cruiser
npc_ship = Order_Battleship
voice = pilot_f_ill_m01
voice = pilot_f_ill_m02
mc_costume = mc_fc
space_costume = pi_pirate1_head, pi_orillion_body, comm_br_guard
space_costume = pi_pirate4_head, pi_orillion_body, comm_rh_alaric
space_costume = sh_male4_head, pi_orillion_body, comm_br_guard
space_costume = ge_male2_head, pi_orillion_body, comm_rh_alaric
space_costume = ge_male4_head, pi_orillion_body, comm_br_guard
space_costume = ge_male1_head, pi_orillion_body, comm_rh_alaric
firstname_male = 226608, 226741
lastname = 227008, 227307
rank_desig = 197128, 197129, 197130, 10, 15
formation_desig = 197808, 197820
formation = fighters, fighter_basic
formation = freighters, freighter_basic
formation = freighters2, freighter2_basic
formation = cruisers, cruiser_delta
formation = battleships, battleship_delta
scan_announce = false
scan_chance = 0.3

from npcships.ini
[NPCShipArch]
nickname = fc_or_elite_d15-17 <== yep, here it is…
loadout = fc_or_elite_loadout <== loadout
level = d15
ship_archetype = or_elite
pilot = pilot_order_hard
state_graph = FIGHTER
npc_class = unlawful, class_fighter, d15, d16, d17

[NPCShipArch]
nickname = fc_or_elite2_d18
loadout = fc_or_elite2_loadout
level = d18
ship_archetype = or_elite_msn01
pilot = pilot_order_hard
state_graph = FIGHTER
npc_class = unlawful, class_fighter, d18

[NPCShipArch]
nickname = fc_or_elite2_d19
loadout = fc_or_elite2_loadout
level = d19
ship_archetype = or_elite_msn01
pilot = pilot_order_ace
state_graph = FIGHTER
npc_class = unlawful, class_fighter, d19

from pilots_population.ini
[RepairBlock]
nickname = repair_order_fighter_both
use_shield_repair_pre_delay = 0.1
use_shield_repair_post_delay = 0.1
use_shield_repair_at_damage_percent = 0.2
use_hull_repair_pre_delay = 0.1
use_hull_repair_post_delay = 0.1
use_hull_repair_at_damage_percent = 0.8

[GunBlock]
nickname = gun_order_fighter_hard_style_a
gun_fire_interval_time = 0
gun_fire_interval_variance_percent = 0.5
gun_fire_burst_interval_time = 2
gun_fire_burst_interval_variance_percent = 0.5
gun_fire_no_burst_interval_time = 1
gun_fire_accuracy_cone_angle = 3
gun_fire_accuracy_power = 1.1
gun_range_threshold = 1.1
gun_target_point_switch_time = 0.3
fire_style = multiple
auto_turret_interval_time = 0
auto_turret_burst_interval_time = 1
auto_turret_no_burst_interval_time = 2
auto_turret_burst_interval_variance_percent = 0.2
gun_range_threshold_variance_percent = 0.3
gun_fire_accuracy_power_npc = 6

[GunBlock]
nickname = gun_order_fighter_ace_style_a
gun_fire_interval_time = 0
gun_fire_interval_variance_percent = 0.1
gun_fire_burst_interval_time = 3
gun_fire_burst_interval_variance_percent = 0.1
gun_fire_no_burst_interval_time = 0.1
gun_fire_accuracy_cone_angle = 4
gun_fire_accuracy_power = 1.1
gun_range_threshold = 1.1
gun_target_point_switch_time = 0.1
fire_style = multiple
auto_turret_interval_time = 0
auto_turret_burst_interval_time = 1
auto_turret_no_burst_interval_time = 2
auto_turret_burst_interval_variance_percent = 0.2
gun_range_threshold_variance_percent = 0.3
gun_fire_accuracy_power_npc = 6

[MineBlock]
nickname = mine_order_fighter_a
mine_launch_interval = 1
mine_launch_cone_angle = 30
mine_launch_range = 250

[MissileBlock]
nickname = missile_order_fighter_hard_style_a
missile_launch_interval_time = 30
missile_launch_interval_variance_percent = 0.5
missile_launch_range = 1000
missile_launch_cone_angle = 22.5
missile_launch_allow_out_of_range = False

[MissileBlock]
nickname = missile_order_fighter_ace_style_a
missile_launch_interval_time = 5
missile_launch_interval_variance_percent = 0.5
missile_launch_range = 1000
missile_launch_cone_angle = 22.5
missile_launch_allow_out_of_range = False

[Pilot]
nickname = pilot_order_hard <== Pilot
inherit = pilot_military_hard
repair_id = repair_order_fighter_both
gun_id = gun_order_fighter_hard_style_a
mine_id = mine_order_fighter_a
missile_id = missile_order_fighter_hard_style_a
evade_dodge_id = evade_dodge_fighter_horiz_ace
countermeasure_id = countermeasure_handicap_0

[Pilot]
nickname = pilot_order_ace
inherit = pilot_military_ace
repair_id = repair_order_fighter_both
gun_id = gun_order_fighter_ace_style_a
mine_id = mine_order_fighter_a
missile_id = missile_order_fighter_ace_style_a
evade_dodge_id = evade_dodge_fighter_horiz_ace
countermeasure_id = countermeasure_handicap_0

from loadouts.ini
[Loadout]
nickname = fc_or_elite_loadout <== loadout
archetype = or_elite
equip = ge_oe_engine_01
equip = npc_shield02_mark06, HpShield01
equip = infinite_power
equip = ge_s_scanner_02
equip = ge_s_tractor_01
equip = ge_s_thruster_04, HpThruster01
equip = fc_or_gun01_mark02, HpWeapon01
equip = fc_or_gun01_mark02, HpWeapon02
equip = fc_or_gun01_mark02, HpWeapon03
equip = fc_or_gun01_mark02, HpWeapon04
equip = fc_or_gun02_mark02, HpWeapon05
equip = fc_or_gun02_mark02, HpWeapon06
equip = fc_or_turret01_mark01, HpTurret01
equip = cruise_disruptor01_mark02, HpTorpedo01
cargo = cruise_disruptor01_mark02_ammo, 40
equip = mine02_mark04, HpMine01
cargo = mine02_mark04_ammo, 40
equip = ge_s_cm_03, HpCM01
cargo = ge_s_cm_03_ammo, 40
cargo = ge_s_repair_01, 25
cargo = ge_s_battery_01, 25
equip = LargeWhiteSpecial, HpHeadlight
equip = SlowSmallYellow, HpRunningLight01
equip = SlowSmallYellow, HpRunningLight02
equip = SlowSmallYellow, HpRunningLight03
equip = SlowSmallYellow, HpRunningLight04
equip = SlowSmallYellow, HpRunningLight05
equip = SlowSmallYellow, HpRunningLight06
equip = contrail01, HpContrail01
equip = contrail01, HpContrail02
equip = contrail01, HpContrail03
equip = DockingLightRedSmall, HpDockLight01
equip = DockingLightRedSmall, HpDockLight02

[Loadout]
nickname = fc_or_elite2_loadout
archetype = or_elite_msn01
equip = ge_oe_engine_01
equip = npc_shield01_mark08, HpShield01
equip = infinite_power
equip = ge_s_scanner_02
equip = ge_s_tractor_01
equip = ge_s_thruster_04, HpThruster01
equip = armor_scale_5
equip = fc_or_gun01_mark03, HpWeapon01
equip = fc_or_gun01_mark03, HpWeapon02
equip = fc_or_gun01_mark02, HpWeapon03
equip = fc_or_gun01_mark02, HpWeapon04
equip = fc_or_gun02_mark02, HpWeapon05
equip = fc_or_gun02_mark02, HpWeapon06
equip = fc_or_turret01_mark02, HpTurret01
equip = cruise_disruptor01_mark02, HpTorpedo01
cargo = cruise_disruptor01_mark02_ammo, 40
equip = mine02_mark04, HpMine01
cargo = mine02_mark04_ammo, 40
equip = ge_s_cm_03, HpCM01
cargo = ge_s_cm_03_ammo, 40
cargo = ge_s_repair_01, 25
cargo = ge_s_battery_01, 25
equip = LargeWhiteSpecial, HpHeadlight
equip = SlowSmallYellow, HpRunningLight01
equip = SlowSmallYellow, HpRunningLight02
equip = SlowSmallYellow, HpRunningLight03
equip = SlowSmallYellow, HpRunningLight04
equip = SlowSmallYellow, HpRunningLight05
equip = SlowSmallYellow, HpRunningLight06
equip = contrail01, HpContrail01
equip = contrail01, HpContrail02
equip = contrail01, HpContrail03
equip = DockingLightRedSmall, HpDockLight01
equip = DockingLightRedSmall, HpDockLight02

from st01.ini in order of expansion from planet [zone]
nickname = Zone_St01_Planet_St01_01
pos = -589, 0, -2712
sort = 99
toughness = 15
density = 5
repop_time = 25
max_battle_size = 3
pop_type = background
population_additive = true
relief_time = 15
encounter = area_defend, 15, 0.4 <== these do not appear
faction = fc_or_grp, 1
encounter = area_trade_armored, 19, 0.6 <== these do appear
faction = co_me_grp, 1
shape = SPHERE
size = 8000
property_flags = 65536
property_fog_color = 40, 85, 70
edge_fraction = 0.2

[zone]
nickname = Zone_St01_01_asteroid_exclusion
pos = -589, 0, -2712 <== only change in this zone from vanilla
shape = SPHERE
size = 10000
property_flags = 131072

[Zone]
nickname = Zone_St01_pop_ambient_St01_01
pos = -2682, 0, -1072
rotate = 0, 35, 0
shape = ELLIPSOID
size = 23069, 16631, 16631
sort = 51
toughness = 15 <== as you recommended
density = 4
repop_time = 25
max_battle_size = 3
pop_type = background
population_additive = true
relief_time = 15
faction_weight = fc_or_grp, 10
encounter = area_defend, 19, 0.2 <== these do appear
faction = fc_or_grp, 1
encounter = area_bh_assault, 19, 0.2 <== as do these
faction = gd_bh_grp, 1

khayman

I’m sorry if this is totally wrong and (or) completely off topic

Would editing the rank_desig of the order make any difference?
I’ve never known the full use for it. I know that it changes the ranks of the npc (rookie, veteran, ace), but i have had to change it to get npc’s to work before. (but that might just be my poor editing).

VNM51

@robo:

encounter = area_defend, 15, 0.4 <== these do not appear
faction = fc_or_grp, 1
encounter = area_trade_armored, 19, 0.6 <== these do appear

The second one has higher rank (19), and it also has higher weight (0.6). It is just a thought, but i think this one gonna appear first and if it fills the max number of the appearance of the zone, then the first one won’t appear, or the next encounter appears which has higher rank than 15, but less than 19, and of course the next one’s weight is also important.

robocop

I just commented out ALL encounters in the system except for the one I want to appear.

Still does not appear…

faction_props has the ship
pilot_population has the pilot
the ship has the loadout…

area_defend is a fairly generic encounter, as long as the ship exists, it should appear

the zone seems correct, after all, the DSE level 18s appear, so the zone isn’t preventing spawns.

I’m going off now to poke my eyes out with a sharp stick…

? Offline

Change the encounter to area scout and see if they turn up then.

On another note, what is your mbase entry difficulty level set at for Toledo? If it’s 18 or higher, might explain why the ships aren’t showing up. An area defend normally launches ships from a base or ship, hence the area defend name. Now if the base is set for 18 or above, it will only launch ships of that level if defined, but nothing below that specified in mbase. Just what i’ve noticed messing with encounter levels.

robocop

Changed St01_01 from diff = 19 to diff = 15
Still no appearance by level 15 Order

Changed encounter from area_defend to area_scout and now they appear.

So, we’re part of the way there…

Right now the only encounter in the system is the area_scout, 15, 0.4
fc_or_grp, 1

Planet Toledo is diff = 15

Continuing to experiment.

Edit: Returned Planet Toledo to diff = 19, area_scout still is appearing.

StarTrader

Two hypotheses to try to help…

1. Change the ship type for your level 15 area_defend encounter to or_elite_msn01 instead of or_elite? If it works then it must be something in the loadout for or_elite.

2. On Gibbon’s clue - Maybe area_defend needs to see a base within a certain distance?