PVP Ult
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See - people jump in without reading carefully, and attack lines they think they have read but have not.
Chips - Don’t try to put false words in my mouth, it upsets me to be misinterpreted deliberately, there’s a nice chap (pats him on the head patronisingly).
Mona Lisa? Do me a favour!
I am not advocating “use anything you want and thumb your nose at the creator”. Far from it. I did specifically and explicitly imply to contact the creator, since I mentioned that most will say yes, and since I addressed the possible non-response.
By free for use I mean exactly what I say, not for you to sell it on. And we are not talking about commercial products, nor about companies that design original space ship models, nor persons who sell their ship models. Those will most certainly have some legal recourse when their products are used without the due payment.
Basically and in plain terms:-
Prevention is better than cure. If you don’t want it used then don’t put it up for downloading.
If you put it up for downloading without passwords or other preventive measures then it inherently implies that you allow people to download it and use it at will.
You disagree? Hmm… Why would anyone put up a ship model or a ship pack for free (as in unhindered and without payment) downloading if they didn’t want it downloaded or used? It’s meant to be used, and… ship packs are specifically designed to be put into a mod.
About modifying it - unfortunately there is not much anyone can claim in the case of a ship model if they make it available for downloading in a form in which it can be modified.
Remember that honourable people would not transgress in the first place.
I like to think of myself as a reasonably logical and honourable person. What little original stuff and info that I do make and release is with the full knowledge that it will be used and maybe modified too. In fact when I do release it I intend for it to be used, it’s my pleasure. Credits? Well, thank you very much, of course. But - Why would I insist? I wouldn’t. Because my head is not the size of a water melon.
Very naturally, I would be very annoyed if someone else claimed he/she made it when it was my original work.
As for legal action against the user - whether unfair or not, courts in the UK (I admit I said “Europe” without being 100% certain) would definitely not support the plaintiff, whether as an individual or as a company, unless he/she had patented and / or registered the ship model as being his/her original property and could prove it.
An individual may shout and belly-ache but needs to have lots of money to throw into a private court case against a poor and scruffy student. Pointless and probably a fruitless exercise.
Honour and respect for others should guide our way in what we do at all times. As I said to Griffin, if the creator does not reply to an email then the permission requester has a decision to make.
What comes back time after time with this “credit me” business is this - many people say they “made something for the community” when they really mean “Hey, look how great I am, look but don’t touch it, just bend down and give me lotsa homage, man!”
Time for another doughnut.
Bye.
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@Griffin:
… Origenaly this was posted on TLR …
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@Griffin:
… post your permissions …
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@Griffin:
… it’s just going to be a personal lan thing with us and our close personal friends. …
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@Griffin:
…. Ultimate …
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…. Prevention is better than cure. If you don’t want it used then don’t put it up for downloading. …
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Maybe there should be a function like THIS.A small addition 4 interested pebs:
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We Can’t Decide Inc. was originally founded with the thought that one of our three directors (Alfa Astrix) had discovered the source code to Freelancer. It was later found that he had, but not in a readable language.
LOL ;D
That just made my dayLmao … thats so funny ;D
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Startrader is right to a certain extent.
@ Original poster
Basically do whatever floats your boat. There is precious little anyone can do to stop you, so it’s up to your concise - as said.@Startrader
Most of your post just seemed to highlight that if they wish to take things willy nilly, then they can. Furthermore, it seems to indicate that putting anything on the internet means this is okay to do as well.Fair enough - personally it’d have been more valuable to simply give the flipside of what respecting people’s requests will mean, as well as the downside of not doing so. Simply stating that nothing will happen if you do what you like seems… to be advocating them to do what they like.
It’s the way it reads. Whether it’s what you mean/intend it or not, it does read like you’re basically saying “hey pal, if you decide to take stuff, nothing bad will happen - so if they say no, or you hear nothing - you can, ya know, either not have the ships OR just sod them!”
goes and removes own source code and looks around suspiciously
I suddenly don’t feel comfortable with this idea of “sharing”, as “sharing” has taken on the feeling of bending over and grabbing anklesWhy I read this thread I dunno, I waste too much time and don’t really have any interest in anything here to be quite frank.
Adios.
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@F!R:
…… 4 one more little smile ;D
you might want 2 go THEREPS. and u shouldn’t miss the XFire page linked in the signature.
Wold it make you feel better for me to just reply here? I’m also glad to see someone found out site. ;D
Now back to the original matter. As I read through this, I’ve notices that it’s beginning to turn into a battle of rights. I would like to add me 2 cents on this.
First off, this thread was started to ask the develops of all the major mods if we / he could use the models from them, not the info or anything else, as long as credit was given to the fullest extent. I’ve done the research and we understand the copyright laws on custom materials and models for customizations made to existing corporate video games. Long story short, we have to have a written permission of each designer / contributor to every ship. That’s where this thread comes in. Yes Griff should email everyone he can, but as many people don’t realize, most of the emails that are posted in the readme files and the script files don’t work. Now being that most of the emails don’t work, or no one ever responds with a yes or no, how do you contact those people?
I’m just saying this because I would like to see Griff’s project follow through. As well as the idea behind it on how he’s going to build the universe behind it, I feel is ingenious. If nothing else, this could become a community project. I mean what would it hurt for all the groups to get together and help a little, if not just offering their ships? This is just my opinion. To get things straight, I’m not a part of this project except to help him where he needs. In essence, Griff’s on his own here. So why sit here and say, “No you can’t have our ships”, when just letting him use it, and only the ship wouldn’t be the end of the world.
Which with that said, I’m going to ask y’all somethng;
Why is it so bad to allow someone to use your ships? -
Hey, it’s great to see so many responces in such short time. The origenal FL site (may it rest in pieces) doesn’t have much to offer anymore (so glad I wasn’t arround when the WoW drama hit there). In all seriousness. Yes, thankyou Chips, FF, Aigle, Worfeh, Startrader (I hope I didn’t miss anyone else that was important) and ATA for your inteligent reports.
Mindhunter: Thankyou for your support, I’ll try to get back to you when I can.
Strail: Duely noted, I don’t believe we have any content from your works in play.
Sorry I didn’t respond sooner. Been busy as hell. Scripting, Work, Scripting, Comic Con, Scripting, Ship Modeling, Weapon Modeling, Scripting, Spending time with my wife when I can, and maybe, if there’s time, a little scripting. I think it was missed somewhere in the translation that I’m am working on this regardless, the permissions thing is just so that it can be released in the future. If not, no big deal. It’s just an appitizer for what we’re making later. As FF stated about our conversation we had on msn, it’s being offered up as a monument to all those people that made content for Freelancer. All files and data can be encrypted, and most likely will be to protect the intrests of those artists that are feeling somewhat negative about the proposition in this discusion. Anyone who wants to add to it, make new content, can do so, and they will retain their rights to it, along with being heavily credited for doing so. There will, in no way, be a ban placed on content that is donated to this project, or any laws be placed that will become retroactive… I mean, come on, we’re not the government here. We’re gamers, we’re better than that, aren’t we?
As for the Emails and stuff, I’m going to try to find an Ambasidor who is good at digging those up for me, as my hands are very full right now. But if I can get access to the emails, I can get ahold of everyone then we can sit down and work out the details. In the near future I might even be able to do that in person. Hell, that would be great, I could explain in detail what we want and I could hear you, actually hear, what it is, it it’s propper context, how you feel about your work. Text is great, but it can be so easily misread depending on your mood.
PS: Again, thankyou for all your sagely advice FF.
Edit: Forgot to mention this. The only reason for the title PVP Ultimate was because we had two PVP mods being worked on at the same time. Not sure who coined that name to mine.
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Hold on, Chips old feller, keep yer hair on…
You’ve been a valuable member of the FL “community” and I am one of those that appreciates your efforts most.
No offence either way pal.
This repeated “debacle” always becomes a fiasco because of peoples’ over-protectionism, with their own work in mind.
My reply just tries to place the facts and practical aspects on the table rather than the “ideals” of the deterrent of threatened but impractical law suits, before the fiasco starts - but it didn’t succeed in preventing it either.
In any case I’m done.
Let your consciences prevail, those of you who have them.
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I would say you can use our ships, however, as not many people have use for ships of 1km and above length,
There doesn’t seem to be much point in it ^.^
But yeah just give us a bell if you want to use them here:
http://black-dawn.fl-wt.com/ -
Oh hey, Dark Angel, thankyou. I can deffinetaly use large ships. If you want to jump on an instant messanger we can work out the details.
I deinetaly like the idea of putting the entire ship’s information in the info cards. That way when you jump in a ship that you haven’t seen before you can look up the data and you can se what mod it’s from, who made it, and all the neet little things about it.
Edit: I thought about what I said in another post about hyper balancing the sci-fi ships to what they origenaly were designed to be like, I think I will turn FL-PVP into a “nascar” sorta. In the idea of keeping all the data complete and to it’s true form from each creator. That way when you fly the ship, use the weapons, and read the info card data, it all points to it’s origen. Kinda like “sponcers” of the product. Hope that gets across the way I’m trying to say it.
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Edit: I thought about what I said in another post about hyper balancing the sci-fi ships to what they origenaly were designed to be like, I think I will turn FL-PVP into a “nascar” sorta. In the idea of keeping all the data complete and to it’s true form from each creator. That way when you fly the ship, use the weapons, and read the info card data, it all points to it’s origen. Kinda like “sponcers” of the product. Hope that gets across the way I’m trying to say it.
You need to work out what your wanting to do, First your going to re-balance all the ships and say “hey, we have re-balanced your ships look how good a job we have done”. Then you turn round and say, “Ah, nope, were leaving them as they are”.
So you are basically going to have all the ships in your mod as they are. Uhm, sort of like every other ship-pack mod out there.
Just take some time and THINK about what your doing before you make some posts in the large FL communities and fundamentally change it “on the hoof”. Maybe theres some other fundamental stuff you have not thought about? Maybe make a check list or something, or a plan?…
And someone asked why people dont like others using their ships… ;D
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@Griffin:
Oh hey, Dark Angel, thankyou. I can deffinetaly use large ships. If you want to jump on an instant messanger we can work out the details.
I deinetaly like the idea of putting the entire ship’s information in the info cards. That way when you jump in a ship that you haven’t seen before you can look up the data and you can se what mod it’s from, who made it, and all the neet little things about it.
Edit: I thought about what I said in another post about hyper balancing the sci-fi ships to what they origenaly were designed to be like, I think I will turn FL-PVP into a “nascar” sorta. In the idea of keeping all the data complete and to it’s true form from each creator. That way when you fly the ship, use the weapons, and read the info card data, it all points to it’s origen. Kinda like “sponcers” of the product. Hope that gets across the way I’m trying to say it.
Sent you a PM
