[SUR Tutorial] Making SUR's without splicing
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Before your tutorial I make my SUR in this way:
1.go to the games \DATA\SHIP directory, get a ship what like you make of CMP ship, EX:bh_elite.cmp.
2.copy its shield SUR file to a temp directory, EX:surbh_elite_shield.sur, then rename it to your CMP ship name like “yourshipname.sur”.
3.use the FLModelTool, then In the “CMP” tab then open your CMP file.
4.click on “SUR” tab, then open the shield SUR file that you was rename it.
5.click resize and use the following settings:
Scale: To CMP (automatic)
SUR Type: Ship
Make all components apart of hullThat’s all, and it can be use on stations SUR or any you want.
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Add me to your msn…… [email protected]
We can sort it out.
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Hi Forsaken,
Thanks for this one. OK, this is the way for a single-export SUR, with shield bubble, for small ships.
But…
Are you really sure you do mean this first …
- Click Resize and use the following settings…
- Scale: To CMP (automatic)
- SUR Type: Ship
- Make all components apart of hull
and this one after…
- Click Resize and use the following settings…
- Scale: To CMP (automatic)
- SUR Type: Scenery <----- IMPORTANT
- Make all components apart of hull
???
Or should it be the other way round?
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- Click Resize and use the following settings…
- Scale: To CMP (automatic)
- SUR Type: Ship
- Make all components apart of hull
and this one after…
- Click Resize and use the following settings…
- Scale: To CMP (automatic)
- SUR Type: Scenery <----- IMPORTANT
- Make all components apart of hull
Or should it be the other way round?
It is correct as you show it. SUR Type Scenery is last. I dont know why, but if you do not do it…. your SUR will not work.
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OK, that’s very odd, I have always done it the opposite way (scenery first, scale all by 1 not auto to cmp, then ship and auto to cmp) and it worked fine.
But I haven’t made a small ship sur recently. Guess I’ll try both ways when I have some free time.
Thanks.
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A quick note here:
When you export the sur groups from MilkShape for import into LithUnwrap, using .3ds format will shorten the group names if they are longer than a certain number of characters (mine are usually too long) and they may get messed up. Export to Wavefront (.OBJ) format instead, LithUnwrap can import them fine, the group names will not be changed and the sur optimisation works fine still.
Just remember to NOT change anything in MilkShape after you bring it back in from LithUnwrap, or it won’t work, just use MilkShape to export the sur only.
I haven’t yet tested the reversing of the scenery / ship setting but I was pretty sure the sur must be type = ship in the final version. I’ll report back unless someone else has the time.
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I’m find some issue, if you use this to make a sur file, when the NPC shot your ship, you will get damage even they not real hit your ship.
I mean that, if the gun ammo is fly close your ship (not missile) but do not real hit your ship, you will still get damege like they hit your ship.
JONG I think the shield bubbles (there are 2) in the SUR are partially detecting hits, by changing the SUR type they are probably no longer completely ignored by FL.
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JONG I think the shield bubbles (there are 2) in the SUR are partially detecting hits, by changing the SUR type they are probably no longer completely ignored by FL.
Hi Bejaymac:
So I think use this way:
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1.go to the games \DATA\SHIP directory, get a ship what like you make of CMP ship, EX:bh_elite.cmp.2.copy its shield SUR file to a temp directory, EX:surbh_elite_shield.sur, then rename it to your CMP ship name like “yourshipname.sur”.
3.use the FLModelTool, then In the “CMP” tab then open your CMP file.
4.click on “SUR” tab, then open the shield SUR file that you was rename it.
5.click resize and use the following settings:
Scale: To CMP (automatic)
SUR Type: Ship
Make all components apart of hullwill be easy, right ?
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Jong:
The way you are describing puts only a single bubble around the ship, I think.(No - I know it does!).
And there are no close-fitting sur parts for your ship parts for hit detection to the hull.
So what happens when your ship’s hit?
There is a difference in how the model detects hits with shields up and with shields down, between this and a proper sur file, so what are the differences?
For example, most people who make home-made surs (including me!) do not put in weapon hit boxes and so, unlike vanilla ships, the result is that weapons are not damaged or destroyed by gunfire.
The same applies when you don’t have a shield bubble in the sur.
Normally the shield_link bubble takes a hit when the shields are up. When they are down, the hull surs take the damage. But you have only one large bubble, no shield bubble.
What I am saying is this:
Since by doing your sur this way, there is no separate shield bubble in the ship sur, this single bubble is the ROOT sur and is not linked to the shield_link bubble, therefore it becomes the hit detection box for your ship’s hull. But it is a big bubble around the ship, not a close-fitting shape. It is supposed to detect hits on your shield when the shield is up, and should be taking hits off the blue line in your HUD display.
But by using the shield_link sur in this incorrect way, every time the single bubble takes a hit, it will transfer the damage to the ship hull, since there is only one hit detection box. And this will give hits to the hull, taking hits off the red line in your HUD display.
And as it is a rather large-sized bubble, it’s not hard to hit your ship. You will probably also find that it is the same size as the shield_link bubble you are using, or maybe even bigger, even after resizing!
The shield sur you used and resized is supposed to be used as the shield bubble only, defining the size of the shield around your ship, and is normally declared in the shield_link = nnnn, HpMount, HpShield01 line in shiparch.ini.
It is linked to the shield bubble that should exist inside the ship sur. (In fact if you look inside a proper small-ship sur, even one made by the exporter with shield-bubble checked, you will find two identically-shaped and -sized shield bubbles, one is named HpMount (see the shield_link = line) and the other I have not been able to decode the hex hashcode yet).So unless this is what you want to happen, this is not the right way to make your sur for your ship. It is (probably) OK for objects that do not have shields.
So for this reason, in short… I would not do my ship surs in this way at all.
You now have at least two fast ways to make good surs - go use them!
Or to save time, just use existing proper vanilla ship surs and resize those to fit your ships, not just the ^&^ shield bubbles!
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No, that’s not right.
I was use this way to make 300+ of ships sur file, and when the ship get hit, its first shield take the damage, until shield is down, then the hull take the damage.
If that like you say, all my mod player will be complaint this issue. ;D
In fact, my way is work fine in game include the stations.
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Is your sur file in the same folder as the model, and does it have the same name?
Basic stuff to check, I know, but I make mistakes when I’m tired too!
Can some moderator or admin please make this sticky too, it’s a good guide for small ship surs with shield bubbles.
And I don’t want to blow my own trumpet by linking to my tutes! :))
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I used this method provided by Forsaken and it seems to work quite well for small ships.
As instructed I used basic shapes to make a rudimentary model that covers the imported ship. Like most mods, we were resizing Vanilla and a few basic SURs for our ships, SURs made with this technique seem to work much better. We will be doing extensive testing in the next few weeks on the 15 or so I have completed so far. I have no modeling experience whatsoever other than just toying around with MS3D and LW in the past, I mean complete rookie, and Im spitting these out @ about 45 minutes to an hour per.
Thanks Tons!!
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Is your sur file in the same folder as the model, and does it have the same name?
Yes, they in the same folder as the model, and it have the same name.
I was use this way to make 300+ ships in my mod and work fine. ;D
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Great tutorial works so far but i got a small problem with the shield bubble.
When i use the exact tutorial the hit detection for shield hits is on the hull parts and not on the bubble.
So i resized it to ship (with the stated settings) and then to scenery with the stated settings and back to ship, with this way I have hull detection on the hull parts and shield hit detection on the shield bubble, but the collision detection doenst work very well.
I have only collision detection on the first box i made (oneil_sur1).So i tryed another way cause op sayed:
@OPR8R:it doesnt matter which type as long you use scenery one time
So i resized it to scenery first and then to ship, sur works shield and hull detection is fine but the the collision detection still only works on the first created primitive.
Am I doing something wrong?Edit: Someone sayed in this threat that this method doesnt work for stations but as far as i see it does, just use the sur splice once to remove the shield bubble from the sur, there is no real need to do so just resize it as scenery and u will have the same effect, but i personally prefer to remove the shieldbubble on models i use only for stations.
Edit2:
My sur in MS3d before the export.
And the same sur exported.
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i tried this method on stations and got the same result like you have with your ship
once an object is too big only the first box worksdunno if and how that stuff with the sur splicer does work (what you just said above) and if it could fix the station probs
