Ini-file modding

cheeseontoast

register on the site hehe

Aeril

I am registered, but i am not in the registered users group.

But i think, that i must specify my first question. Is it possible to automatically update an ini-file on the client, when it was changed on the server during freelancer is runnning. I think, that this is needed for a dynamic economy, for example.

FriendlyFire

You cannot modify most of the files while Freelancer (or the server) is running. You need to close them first.

Dynamic economies work by either forcing the server and all clients to shut the program down periodically or by using hooks which dynamically inject new values into the memory without necessarily changing the files.

Worfeh

True, with client hooks its possible… but its not easy to get the code for that as it makes the code owner a mighty person because he / she can run everything they want on the client machine.
The best is to use the update program and sync that during the startup of it.

Aeril

So every server, which alter the cost of goods when you dock at a station, can also run every code on my machine, it wants to?

Worfeh

Only the one who created that code, and until now only 2 persons made that code… w0dka the FLhook developer and Eagle the FLAC developer, wich i would both trust with errr… a picture of my GF…

No kidding, client hooks only are acceseble by the people who create them and upload them in their mods.

FriendlyFire

I’m sure there was a way to make a server-side only dynamic economy? (As in, no client-side hooking)

Worfeh

There is a SP dynamic economy… not a MP one… its hidden somewhere inside the files and can be activated.

Stormblast

@Worfeh:

There is a SP dynamic economy… not a MP one… its hidden somewhere inside the files and can be activated.

Don’t think so it’s either hardcoded or player-rank-dependable.

Sion

@Worfeh:

until now only 2 persons made that code…

Might want to add one to that… though it is nearly defunct at this point.

Aeril

W0dka hasn’t released a flhook-plugin for a dynamic economy, has he?

Worfeh

Nope not yet.
I believe its to much coded into the files he uses for client side anticheat as well.

Tunicle

There is a limited randomness that can be implemented in SP

I think Gibbon may have posted this but apologies for my memory.

[BaseInfo]
nickname =
start_room =
price_variance = 0.01 <–— varies price by 1%

I think this was tested without problem up to 10%.

This isn’t true dynamic but does input an element of randomness, note it will impact on anything that base sells.

Aeril

I know, that the Hamburg City Freelancer Server has a dynamic economy without any shutdown. How can this be?

HazardFN

probably by Hooking into FL

w0dk4

Specifically by hooking into the client

My plan is to release a dynamic economy plugin, sadly I dont have a lot of time for fl development, therefore this may still take a while.

melwoc

@Worfeh:

True, with client hooks its possible… but its not easy to get the code for that as it makes the code owner a mighty person because he / she can run everything they want on the client machine.
The best is to use the update program and sync that during the startup of it.

Really, really sorry for the bump, BUT… When you say “everything” do you mean “everything Freelancer” or everything “everything” (ala ActiveX)? 'Cause that’s a really scary thought for anyone thinking about logging into a modded server. I know an ethical admin would (or should) advise about that capability before you join, but what about organized groups with more nefarious intentions?

Don’t mean to be paranoid, but …!

FriendlyFire

If you hook into the client, it’s as if you inserted a virus into the program; you can do anything the program already can (although I know it’s not totally the same since DLLs have quite a few restrictions on what they can and cannot execute, but they still could do some damage or pry over some valuable data).

melwoc

@FriendlyFire:

If you hook into the client, it’s as if you inserted a virus into the program; you can do anything the program already can (although I know it’s not totally the same since DLLs have quite a few restrictions on what they can and cannot execute, but they still could do some damage or pry over some valuable data).

Thanks for the response , FF, sometimes this kind of question is pointedly ignored on some forums.

I am not looking to turn this thread into anything hugely controversial. Still, this is, at least to me, an important topic. So….
I am not a programmer or a developer. I am a mature (AARP member), knowledgeable layman, who did dabble in DOS debug.com assembly a long time ago. I have a somewhat abstract understanding of how the Windows API works, but much much of it is over my head.
My understanding of a hook is, that it is a function in an executable app that can be induced to call an external app, or a library call, not originally written into the app. The hooks themselves are either written in intentionally for a) debugging, b) expanding future functionality, or c) unintentionally due to sloppy programming. Am I reasonably correct so far?
Being old and gray, I’m an SP player, not sure I could handle the Wild West out on the net servers, but I am playing about with setting up a LAN server, so I have been exploring the server side topics on the forums, trying to glean the details of server-client interaction, how the process works, how files get read and written, etc.
I know if I download a mod, I can scan it for viruses or trojans, and then assume it is trustworthy. But you seem to be saying that that same trustworthy mod could theoretically be a backdoor into my machine were the server side being controlled by someone with questionable scruples. While I appreciate your disclaimer about what dll’s can do, what about the executable? Anything with a read/write function, and internet access is potentially lethal.
I understand server admins in general should probably be given the benefit of the doubt as honest, dedicated people, but it is a dangerous world out there. Is anyone advising players about this security hole?
I see a big push for anti-cheat apps for the server side of things to prevent exploits by hackers. Has anyone anywhere given any thought to a “sandbox” environment for the players, to keep any potential intrusion at bay? Or is it really just “play at your own risk”?

I know that’s a lot to throw at you, and I don’t expect you to have quick and ready answers, but anyone else care to join in?

? Offline

@Aeril:

Is it possible to automatically update an ini-file on the client, when it was changed on the server during freelancer is runnning. I think, that this is needed for a dynamic economy, for example.

The simple answer is yes you can. I appreciate most usesrs who run a server use FLHook, but it’s not the only thing to use to run a server. I use FLAC which has a dynamic economy plugin that updates on the fly, meaning i don’t have to turn the server off for updates as it does it continuosly.

There are many other hooks you can plug into the server only that stops 99% of clientside ini modding, everything from speed modding, thruster hacks, commodity price changing, cloaks, you name it. I think some of you are being a tad paranoid tbh. Yes there are idiots who try to disrupt servers, trick is to be ready for them, FLAC does an excellent job of protection, not free but seriously worth the expenditure.