FL might support Bump Maps and other features

OPR8R

No really, I’m reacting like that because I’ve never seen you giving positive feedback on something you’ve not done yourself

yeah - bad memory happens when you are busy trying to mark someone to be the devil
everything good he did or said suddenly never happened

unfortunatly i cant access 50% of my posts anymore here at TSP but id like to refresh your memory

no of course you dont need to read them all… just start with the first one
how about YOU giving any positive feedback to what i have done?

keeping TLR online while bp and eraser were still the owners
bringing many FL modders from TLR to TSP
dealing with hackers
getting many FL communities added to the MS fansite
interventing when worfey was fed up and was going to hand TSP over to reactorforge when his server got hacked
and all the other small things that i did over the past 10 years that i am supporting the lancer community

anything? no? ok

i just wonder why i never run into problems with the other communities that i have contact to

Schmackbolzen

@tomsons26: It took about 7 years to develop Freelancer and this game has changed more often than you can imagine.

Trust those, who got a deeper look inside the (reversed) code, that most features are unfinished and only those which work flawlessly are active.

Bas

i wrote just one post to shed some light on a subject, i have not violated any rules, i have not insulted anyone, i have not hurt somebodies feelings (except yours obviously), actually ive not done anything wrong except that i didnt agree with your oppinion, oh mighty king

Well, to speak truly out of my heart, you have to watch a bit more about others. I read your post like something as making other people down (‘You made my day!’) who don’t have a proper experience or knowledge with that stuff. Of course I can’t see inside their heads, but this might be indeed emotionally injuring.

Another thing - Try to remember I said to you a long time ago - I really guess you could run into way less problems with other persons if you not only look after WHAT you say but also HOW do you say it. It might really change worlds.

I think especially because you say things how do you atm set you in the position in which you are now. Many people see you as an aggressor and provocater in these forums, and you have done some parts to it, too.

You should really try to change your kind of speaking. You could have way less troubles, you could reach even more, you would save a lot of energy along with others would do, and you are just too far from being stupid at all. Use your non-stupidity for positive means, and this includes the change of your speaking.

This doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t speak out what you think, but please consider which words and phrases you choose.

You might want to disagree with this posting now, maybe even with 100%, but please just try it out for a few days, a week or two and try to reflect the results of this experiment to yourself. Just a very friendly advice.

OPR8R

its weird that only ppl here are so “sensitive”@bas
ok - thats not totally right… with many of the ppl here i can talk absolutly normal on messenger or via pm

Schmackbolzen

Well if you write

im not even putting much hope in a dx9 version as the few pics and vids ive seen so far have mostly hurt my eyes

then I wouldn’t wonder if the people who work on this version get offended.

I myself have seen screenshots I got from wodka and there is only the pixel shader difference between the dx8 and dx9 version. Stating that they hurt your eyes only shows me that you have no clue what you are talking about.

That’s my opinion, expressed the same way like you tend to write.

FriendlyFire

Schmack hit the nail on the head, and as I’ve been told by many I should normally just be ignoring you but I dunno, I felt like playing with the trolls for once

OP, you can pull out as many posts as you want (bravo on taking the time to get them), I’m pretty sure I could gather as many of you downplaying, dissing, slandering or otherwise being nasty at/about something. I have no interest on playing a counting down of it and weighting each to determine your overall “forum karma”. I think many people will agree with me that you are generally an ass when it comes to giving your opinion. Either you like it and you say nothing or do a small post about it, or you get into a tirade as to why it sucks/diss it on the side/use an hyperbole to express your contempt of it.

I’m not taking any gloves because I don’t feel like I need to anymore. It’s been long enough that I’ve been at this to feel a bit tired of that. You haven’t posted in what, months? And you come back why? To gratuitously slander what someone else has been working on.

Sorry, I’m not taking that.

Sushi

Schmackbolzen wrote:
Well if you write

im not even putting much hope in a dx9 version as the few pics and vids ive seen so far have mostly hurt my eyes

then I wouldn’t wonder if the people who work on this version get offended.

I myself have seen screenshots I got from wodka and there is only the pixel shader difference between the dx8 and dx9 version. Stating that they hurt your eyes only shows me that you have no clue what you are talking about.

That’s my opinion, expressed the same way like you tend to write.

@OP: I was offended as W0dk4’s a developer of the FW:ToW mod, where he’s put in tens to hundreds of hours to get the game stable on DX9, something we will be releasing to the entire FL community once we get it fully operational.

Saying it “hurts your eyes” is just being rude, inconsiderate and very condescending to W0dk4’s efforts as well as the rest of my development team. I could attack your mod, such as you did mine, but I won’t bring myself to your level.

And if this hurts your eyes:
or
then there’s a problem with your eyes.

@Schmackbolzen: Thank you

@FF: +1.

@Everyone else: Sorry for the derail of the thread

Timmy51m

There’s the knockout blow, and it was a clean punch!

StarTrader

FriendlyFire wrote:

OPR8R wrote:
now i remember why i have left TSP
…
nothing has changed
have a nice day FF

Ahh, you missed me OP. No really, I’m reacting like that because I’ve never seen you giving positive feedback on something you’ve not done yourself…

Hey FF - don’t you know Op’s style yet? He’s just cynical, down, depressed, sceptical, but giving his knowledge where he thinks it would be useful in saving people time and effort wasted…!!

And that’s why he doesn’t commit by encouraging, because he doesn’t believe better results can be achieved.

And of course he is still really happy with his old 386 with EGA monitor and his bottle-bottom glasses!

So don’t take it personally, he’s got useful info too somewhere in that head of his. Sometimes. Problem is he doesn’t like to tell, we have to tease it out of him with a rake and long-nose pliers!

Stick around Op, but take my old advice given to you so many years ago - cool it, don’t be so down on people trying to do new things (unless they ask for stupid screen resolutions, then I will take your side too!)

And tell us how you did it and what results you got - you rarely did that.

That would be more helpful than your usual sardonic “you can’t get it better - and anyway I won’t like it!”. :roll:

OPR8R

always the same
if you dont like an oppinion you get hostile and even use insults, you blame me for stuff but you are not even better

I came back because of the topic -> bump maps
not because of the dx9 stuff or to cause troubles
YOU could have accepted the oppinon like every normal guy would have done but instead of that you got personal and that is very poor

I have modded many games, including several dx9 games and even one dx10 game. work on the shaders and of course bump maps included

just alone take the vid with the “bloom and color correction”, the bloom in enb looks better as with good settings its less oversaturated and the color correction is influencing the entire environment letting everything look unnatural. just alone the sun that was shown or the engines look terrible in my eyes.
So if you feel offended by that, ok your choice but personally i still believe that good developers at least interested in the “whats wrong with it” and the “what can be done better” instead of going suddenly hostile.

oh and before you point your finger on me, read again your own comments on this thread towards the thread starter. Nice is something different.

StarTrader

Op - I’m not being offensive to you, I have a lot of time for you, but come on, cool your depression a bit.

Your input of your experience with so many aspects often starts good but is usually non-descriptive, as in this case. But mainly it’s the way you try to put people off that upsets them - many have succeeded where you have said it was a waste of time. All that does is make you seem less knowledgable in the long run.

And ignore FF, he has some control-freak hangups like many people! After all, he’s a French-wannabe too, I’m just pleased he writes to us in English, many of his countrymen would not!! lol

I myself, yes, my usual calm, collected, white-rabbit self!, came very close to hitting him a couple of times if he had been a real person standing next to me! Imagine that! Me! :roll: (just found the eye-roll smiley, used it 4 times today)!

He’s the reason I changed my avatar to my more dangerous side! rofl

See what I mean - he won’t even give us a set of smileys that include an ROFL! Pure Control Freak!

Schmackbolzen

@OPR8R:
Again, I have much doubt that you have any clue what you are talking about, because:

Who is to say that you can’t change the amount of bloom and saturation? (B.t.w. the ENB series have this option)
Who is to say that you can’t disable/configure the color correction?
Who is to say that you can’t use shaders others / you wrote yourself?

I didn’t like the color correction video, too. But I know this is not finished and even if I don’t like it I never would say it looks like crap. Also the video quality was quite bad.

So you are basically expressing your negative opinion about a not finished product you don’t even have seen first hand in a very unkindly way. And you are wondering why people react not happy about it?

Usually one would just ignore such a character.

OPR8R

ehmm yeah right Schmackbolzen
and who was talking about any settings here? what this dx9 conversion can do or cant do via setting was not even discussed… i made a pure comment on the pics and vids that ive seen… not about any settings that are not even shown, explained, discussed or mentioned

i was just talking about what i was able to see on that vid, not about what might be developed someday, how it might look with different settings is pure speculation and has nothing to do with my previous statements

@ST
I am not trying to put somebody off. I just have spent my time with developers which can deal with critics and oppinions in a normal way which does not seem to be possible here.
Improvements can not happen if everybody is saying that everything is shiny. My own community and the various projects at it are getting better and better because we dont rush on somebody who says “i dont like the look of this object” and getting hostile with such ppl. We listen to them and do improvements. Thats how it works… no troubles, no argueing, honest oppinions and no bad blood.
That way it works in many communities, just not here (as i was able to read in the threads of the past half year).

Schmackbolzen

That’s exactly my point. So next time instead of

im not even putting much hope in a dx9 version as the few pics and vids ive seen so far have mostly hurt my eyes

write e.g.

im not even putting much hope in a dx9 version for now, as the few pics and vids ive seen so far didn’t exactly convince me

I’ve had this discussion about writing stile over and over again and mostly the people forget that no one reads your text as you write it. Obviously your current writing style makes people believe that you are arrogant / rude / have no clue what you are talking about.

Often simple words can change the way a sentence is interpreted, I didn’t change much in your statement but this way no one should be offended.

w0dk4

Just to shed some light on “dx9” since everybody thinks dx9 can do wonders by itself:

The conversion of DX8 to DX9 basically changes nothing in FL, since DX8 is almost the same as DX9.
Actually, the first thing I made sure was that DX9 looked the same as DX8, so that there are no bugs in the wrapper.
The only big changes made to the graphics pipeline in DX9 are the fully customizable shaders.

Color correction and bloom are simple post processing effects that by itself have nothing to do with DX9.

So, naturally, a “DX9 conversion” cannot do anything more than a DX8 version. Im also saying that the DX9 conversion is already completed.

What Im working on at the moment is to add features to the rendering pipeline which is not simply switching some settings in some DX9 interface. The simplest ones were the two post processing effects, since post processing is very easy to do.
I’d argue that they are still better than ENB’s simply for the reason that they are applied before the HUD is drawn, whereas ENB’s post process effects apply to everything on-screen.

Also: The FL devs actually did a great job at getting the best out of DX8. The specular highlights on ships are not done with the stock specularity feature of Direct3D, but rather with cube map textures.
Porting the renderpipeline to DX9 mainly allows to add shader-related features, which werent possible in D3D8.

Sushi

OPR8R wrote:
So if you feel offended by that, ok your choice but personally i still believe that good developers at least interested in the “whats wrong with it” and the “what can be done better” instead of going suddenly hostile.

So now I’m a bad developer? To be quite honest, you’re a prick, OP. You think you’re a good person for the community? What about these comments about the 88FLAK mod on MODDB? http://www.moddb.com/mods/crossfire/page/5#comments

OP wrote:
ok lets just stick with the textures
higher quality on textures are not supported by the Freelancer engine and when i look at the Flak88 textures i can clearly see that they are not a little bit better. Actually it can even be said that Crossfire was the very first mod which even did such texture changes ages ago and since that time no other mod was able to come up with improvements yet.
Flak88 is actually not even playing in our leaque. The popularity of our mod obviously is indicator of its quality and shows that we must have done something right where others have done it wrong. So why in gods name should I take a look at a mod which is less successful then my own mod? Obviously its features or graphics were not reason for players to fill its official server.
I guess i keep doing things the way i did in the past as i probably have more experience than any other modder in the FL community and the success of my work is proving me right. (and believe me… in the past 7 years i have introduced more features and concepts to the Freelancer game than anybody else… so please stop telling something about features).

I particularly love the last part of the comments.

All you do is lash out at things that you find threatening towards your mod; which apparently to you, is the best mod ever in the existence of gaming, let alone Freelancer. Anything that isn’t completed by you, is obviously not as good. Your comments on MODDB are quite funny to run through and I recommend it for people that are in the mood for a laugh. I particularly love how you handle criticisms of your mod, since we are talking about “good developers”.

Honestly, OP, go back to the hole you crawled out of as you can see, most people really don’t enjoy your presence, comments or anything that spews out of your fingertips.

OPR8R

you read what you want to read, not what is written
and when talking about flak88 at moddb
that was the right answer for coming to my mod profile, advertising their mod, belitteling my work, insulting me and my community and finally breaking the moddb terms of use

Nova

Hello guys, you talking about textures, so maybe you know the answer: take a look here please… http://the-starport.net/freelancer/forum/viewtopic.php?topic_id=3352

Sushi

OPR8R wrote:
you read what you want to read, not what is written
and when talking about flak88 at moddb
that was the right answer for coming to my mod profile, advertising their mod, belitteling my work, insulting me and my community and finally breaking the moddb terms of use

The right answer? I think what you wrote there was seriously overkill, as are most of your replies. Furthermore, this wasn’t FoxUnit01, M0tah or Why485 that came and did this and you belittled/slandered their work without a just cause.

OPR8R

really? compared to the replies i got here i was pretty nice to that guy that obviously tried to convince ppl to leave my mod and come to flak88
and that guy was not just a nobody like you try to state, nobody from flak88 appeared to have a problem with the troubles he caused at my mod so nobody from flak88 nor anybody else has the right to judge about the way the issue has been finally solved

i told that guy to think about “why some mods and servers are more successful than others and that ppl which run an almost empty server should better not tell me how i have to do my work”
if that is an attack towards flak88 then i dont know anymore
…probably that guy simply shouldnt have started that crap