Brrr and wut wit TLR?

1. I’m sorry, but a technical issue is a technical issue. You clearly phrased it in a way that implied it was a decision made by the staff. You decided not to PM us. You should not even have brought it up. I’d be more than happy to help anyone with their issues, should the need arise. Yes, even from you. You need to look back at how I proceed and think about how you picture me. I’m not some kind of monster that’ll do everything in its power to cast you in a bad light. I have my opinions as a person, and my duties as an administrator. Many people have said I should’ve banned you a while ago, but that would be my personal opinion clashing with my administrative duty. You have done nothing wrong in here, so you have no reason to get banned and no reason to get singled out. Had you asked for help, I would’ve helped just as I helped every single person who’s asked in the past.

2. Would you care to link to this? You must be misinterpreting my words. I cannot and would not deny facts. You were a TLR admin and helped there, that’s a fact. You built one of the biggest mods around, that’s also a fact. I can dislike the mod for personal reasons (taste, etc.), I can have issues with the site, but you still did those and have been an important member of the community. I don’t think I’ve clearly said that I denied those facts anywhere.

4. I’m not the one who muted you. I was not even aware that you had been given this opportunity. Hence, I don’t see why me, w0dk4, Worfeh, Roo and others should be blamed for what others have done.

5. The problem is that the archive was in an unrecoverable format until Worfeh decyphered it. He has as much of a hand into the data being available as TLR has. He would be within his right to deny you the usage of his reverted copy. Furthermore, as Chips has said, the ownership belongs to the original owners of TLR, not you, not AzzA, not MentalChaos.

6b. Well I’m glad that this was the case. However, that is something you did of your own will. Nobody coerced you into doing it. The FLCN has been designed in a specific way to cover a specific purpose - to link together all the FL sites so that you could always reach any point from any other point at any time. It is important for us that the rules we have put in place be respected, or the very foundational principles of the FLCN would be lost. You can’t ask us to do that.

6c. Like it or not, few sites would display TWO community bars at any given time. It’s just impractical. That was mostly w0dk4’s point: you’d have a portion of the sites only linking back to what the FLCN provides, while another portion would only link back to what your bar does. There would be no clear bridge between both entities, hence, a rift. You’ll also notice that we have in fact added FLC’s links after Soupman came in the thread. The link exchange is a very, very recent thing. You can’t really comment on something until it’s finished, which the exchange is not. Furthermore, for a long time I was against putting it up because it also linked to TLR. Now that you are in charge there, my objection no more applies.

7. I was referring to links, because yes, for a long time TSP links were being censored, edited, redirected, etc. I’ve never implied that SWAT had such a policy, but TLR definitely did.

As for hacking, remember that what w0dk4 is saying is that others would do such things. Not you. Not someone under your command. Others, on your behalf but without your permission. Just like there are idiots who come and slander other mods on their own servers and claim to be hailing from Discovery. It’s something that benefits neither of us, but it’s a very real possibility, especially considering FL’s history.

8. Well I don’t want to sound rude, but your wording and phrasing definitely make your suggestions sound like demands.

I have that same problem … my words in written form often come off as Attitude … i blame my English teacher …

I have always been for the communties to come together … im not saying anyone here or at Swat hasnt been … but this seems to be the ideal moment to make it so … while i did not Support TLR in the recent past due to Actions not controlled by anyone speaking today , i do Support it Now and Get the feeling TSP feels the same way … it only takes a yes to make it happen,

I would suggest and its just my opinion … we start from square one Right now … nothing in the past counts , its a clean Slate for all … What do ya think Op ?

Lets Really Show the Community that we are united in one thing at least , Link bars and Banners mean little compared to actions , And we all want the best for Freelancers and modders Everywhere … So lets Just do it

Im in … How Bout you Guys ?

Apparently AzzA is having another go at Hamburg City and was trying to do it at TSP earlier today. Do you see what w0dk4’s point was about, now, OP? It’s not your fault, but that’s exactly what w0dk4 meant.

Holy Halleluja….

I will shed some light on some of the mentioned things here. I am already in contact with FF about the news thing. I did post a news (as news submissions were pleased to be posted :). Submission ended in a blank page. As myself wasn’t clear if the news submission would ever reach the inbox (to be posted later), I decided to post that thread that was already mentioned. Hence its a technical problem of that site. Just to finish this topic. For me it was OK to have the thread., finally. So its either my fault that i didn’t followed it any further that i was not posted as news, i didn’t even contact any admin here about it - also my fault Now we can quarrel who had which fault. But that leads to nothing, because both sides had their fault in not getting the news posted. Please consider this topic as solved now - its not relevant anyway for the topic of this thread!

Then the community bar thing. There are different versions, the SWATs one the TSP one (don’t know a third one). Basically its the same - namely a linking of other sites, belonging to this community and to offer a linkage between each other. The basic idea is really fantastic! And to get the stone into rolling again. I would consider it a community bar if we could finally act together and eventually get one community bar established that would sever all sites purpose (probably customizable for every site). So don’t lets quarrel about who used what which what restrictions here or there. Doesn’t really matter. Make the name of the bar (COMMUNITY) real. I would be pleased to cooperate with some folks to get this task finished.

And finally - this discussions here serves no other purpose than to reveal comments and arguments that have been raised continuously over the entire history of the lancers communities. We certainly can continue to quarrel again and again - and ahm again about the same problems and issues and probably would never come to a conclusion that suits all sides. For me important would be to somehow unite as a community and leave the arguments about each other in the past. Because actually thats my understanding of community - working together to serve the purpose so all can enjoy their part. Would make Freelancer stronger and we could strengthen eventually the player ship on ours all servers - because no one is really interested in all the pasts #$%%.

Thats just my 2 cents here. If needed i am willed to moderate to between TSP and SWAT and or TLR…

yea, cmon, let’s argument why we did the better job and the others did the worse. let’s discuss about events of the past, appreciation and ignorance, exclusion and all the blah (i have in fact missed the last page, didn’t want to read all that rubbish).
this is what is splitting the community and nothing else!!!
close this frakkin thread and get back to work. this will not result in anything rather than trolling. yes, it might be polite, intellectual and fact-based. it sounds barely like sorta courthouse discussion but in end, it is not more than TROLLING. you just do not use dirty language but your actual intellect.

that does not make it better.
dunno about other community members but me for instance do not care how much you like or dislike each other. for the aims we pursuit it is entirely irrelevant!

I’m not sure I agree with that, people are starting to sew the seeds of a future which might result in more of them working together. If what is required for that to happen is certain views being put forward in order to clear the air then why not let it play out. Good old fashioned diplomacy at work here featuring some names I haven’t seen in a long time, together, in one thread, that in itself is a good thing. Any progress is good progress.

Timmy51m wrote:
I’m not sure I agree with that, people are starting to sew the seeds of a future which might result in more of them working together. If what is required for that to happen is certain views being put forward in order to clear the air then why not let it play out. Good old fashioned diplomacy at work here featuring some names I haven’t seen in a long time, together, in one thread, that in itself is a good thing. Any progress is good progress.

Cause with a few exceptions, most of the issues are being aired for the twentieth time in three years…

I’m not joking…it really is the same stuff time and time again. It may be initiated by something new (this time supposed wish tlr was ‘gone’, but it always goes back to the same crap. It is clear that some really have an issue, but why it always boils down doesn’t mean it isn’t discussed. Just means it isn’t left alone - hence why I call it point scoring. E.g. the repeated w0dk4 tried to prevent gls work around. From memory I believe nothing was done about it til after the fact. Of course, those who claim to have been telling everyone this for years previously also didn’t actually do anything either. However, end result is that this means it was all w0dk4’s fault (or so you’d think from the hoo-haa this causes!)

What isn’t acknowledged during this is the vast in un-paralleled amount of good work he did before and after.

The accuser of w0dk4 then claims he never gets respect or acknowledgement. This one point really has been repeated for three years, trotted out as part of the ‘who has the communities best interest at heart’ argument. It’ll appear again, and again…

This has been repeated again and again over the last 3 years as Chips states, I’ve seen it as well.

I’m not sure I agree with Chips that it can’t be solved, unlikely as it is; it will be solved the moment OP, FF and some others calm down.

A little more point scoring:

SWAT_OP-R8R wrote:

i dont think that a new GLS is needed

even if you have one no vanilla players could connect there coz the ip is different so either you ignore the fact that there are vanilla servers which opens a wide spread range of possibilities to bypass the old GLS or you find another solution which would has the same effect

on the other side - why should we think about a problem that does not exist yet? and from what i know the GLS will stay online for some more years

Edited by - SWAT_OP-R8R on 10/20/2006 6:56:01 AM

Check it out, it’s a funny thread:
http://www.the-starport.net/archive/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=44511

Also includes a nice fight between Strail and Op.
Seems like I was more mature back then, ignoring Op alltogether. Or maybe I simply have enough from the crap thesedays.

Made me laugh

A lot

I think ignoring back them came because the thread had topic about work. These threads with arguments always just end up about Op, he hijacks to make it about him only, so its either post or ignore…

He was even doing it back then, just the topics were more robust I guess.

Don’t make fun of OP just because you dislike him, regardless he is running communities out there, and this certainly won’t help at least increasing the chance to remove the split.

I respect OP just for the fact he is running one of the most populated servers out there, without complaints. I don’t necessarily like his attitude towards you, but I don’t like your attitude towards him either.

The fight between OP and Strail was kinda funny, though.

w0dk4, I think your post is best served with a little reminder about what has been Op’s stance for the past few years over this issue: http://the-starport.net/freelancer/forum/viewtopic.php?post_id=15112#forumpost15112
That information was taken from the tlrfacts.tk site, which is now defunct (a site created, and run, by Op - where he wrote all the info).

In 2006 a guy called OP-R8R announced at lancersreactor.com that the global list server would get shut down one year later. A serious warning which got ignored by the community, by you. One year later the global list server got shut down and the Freelancer communit was not prepared for this case because they ignored the only person which had enough knowledge about this issue.
Result of this is that the entire Freelancer community lost about 2.000 online players until the first solutions to this problem were developed.

Doesn’t even mention who made the solution!

I’m not making fun, just pointing out how certain people present themselves - you can draw your own conclusions as to whether they are accurately representing themselves, or generating and perpetuating their own propaganda.

Like this one:

• Talking about mods. Do you even have an idea how many features that are used in modern Freelancer mods are based on OP-R8Rs concepts? Did you know that OP-R8R was one of the first modders and that much of todays modding knowledge is based on his work?

rolls eyes I’m not saying that Op didn’t make concepts at all - just that this is a hugely misleading statement, as it implies much more than is reality - and I know quite a lot of the “first modders”

Now again, I’m not making fun - but I am trying to point out that people should take things with a pinch of salt. I promise it’s the last i say about such things.

Just to clarify, I do have respect for people’s work and their contributions, not just here, but elsewhere.

However I do strongly believe that respect does not mean I tolerate their, for want of a better word, bullshit - and I will call them on it, or question it, where appropriate.

Some people really appear to dislike this…tough. Anyway, last I say

@Wolfie, Gisteron, etc.

I’m not sure you realize it, but right now you sound like the so-called sage guys who’re giving thoughtful suggestions up-front, but which have absolutely zero worth if you dig a little.

Do you seriously believe people can just do format and start over just like that? I’m afraid this runs too deep. Furthermore, this changes nothing about our differing opinions of a lot of matters. How do you propose we solve them? Just calling us out to agree is an extremely easy and extremely weak answer - it provides no insight.

If the solution was so easy, this whole ordeal would’ve been done a long, long time ago. I’m having no fun constantly bickering and getting bickered at by OP, and I’m sure the feeling is shared.

Think about it carefully: if YOU were at our place, what would you do? Be honest, don’t picture yourself as some sort of saint, or you’d just be lying to yourself.

I’m still waiting for an answer from OP…

• Talking about mods. Do you even have an idea how many features that are used in modern Freelancer mods are based on OP-R8Rs concepts? Did you know that OP-R8R was one of the first modders and that much of todays modding knowledge is based on his work?

Hey AdoXa… F!R… GLOCK!! u see this S*#T… ??

I for one have never gleamed any light from anything remotely close to Crossfire or OP-R8R… this aint a OP bash… far from it… i just think that statement’s total B&$^#&#**%&# I learn’t everything i know from the above 3 modders… i don’t see a OP in that list… just sayin…

Some pll should think before they spew forth generality’s like the quote above… comments like that further alienate the speaker… and really Pi$$ me off

FriendlyFire wrote:
@Wolfie, Gisteron, etc.

I’m not sure you realize it, but right now you sound like the so-called sage guys who’re giving thoughtful suggestions up-front, but which have absolutely zero worth if you dig a little.

Do you seriously believe people can just do format and start over just like that? I’m afraid this runs too deep. Furthermore, this changes nothing about our differing opinions of a lot of matters. How do you propose we solve them? Just calling us out to agree is an extremely easy and extremely weak answer - it provides no insight.

If the solution was so easy, this whole ordeal would’ve been done a long, long time ago. I’m having no fun constantly bickering and getting bickered at by OP, and I’m sure the feeling is shared.

Think about it carefully: if YOU were at our place, what would you do? Be honest, don’t picture yourself as some sort of saint, or you’d just be lying to yourself.

I’m still waiting for an answer from OP…

Don’t say that, I didn’t say start from scratch and all will be fine, I’m saying stop arguing in this thread as it doesn’t make things better.

OP left the thread.

Xarian_Prime wrote:

I for one have never gleamed any light from anything remotely close to Crossfire or OP-R8R… this aint a OP bash… far from it… i just think that statement’s total B&$^#&#**%&# I learn’t everything i know from the above 3 modders… i don’t see a OP in that list… just sayin…

Some pll should think before they spew forth generality’s like the quote above… comments like that further alienate the speaker… and really Pi$$ me off

What? You learned stuff from me? When?

AdoXa… F!R… GLOCK!!

Sorry Wolfie

maybe you should clear out your differences privately. we won’t get an own opinion by reading who is the worse of you. you both are important leaders, you should be sensible enough to clear differences. if you are not, than the community will split and there is neither a way around it nor anyone else but you two, gentlemen, responsible in the end.

don’t take it wrong now… but public treating of each other won’t hopefully make things worse but won’t definately make them better. no matter, who was right and who was wrong during the last years. atm you are wrong both.

edit: with you i rather mean the leadership of the two parties, not specifical persons.

This reminds me of the cold war.

Gisteron wrote:
don’t take it wrong now… but public treating of each other won’t hopefully make things worse but won’t definately make them better. no matter, who was right and who was wrong during the last years. atm you are wrong both.

I would like to point out, that from my perspective, Op continues to bring the issues out into public for discussion.

Draw your own conclusions as to the motivations, but personally it is pretty obvious. http://lancersreactor.org/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=2270&s=d1661660467f215d1a3c349db8ea66ce8f4c1f70

My try to get Starport involved in TLR failed and just alone my offer to work together after they bashed this site on their forum resulted in more unpleasant comments. I clearly can not agree with them that rebuilding TLR is a split to the FL community, as well as I can not agree to their methods. On the other side, Starport has not done anything constructive here before, so it is no loss at all. I’d like to focus on those which want and not on those which dont want.
Having that in mind I think it would be unfair when the supporters of TLR work for the good of the community and others which dont do take the benefits. Fair would be to support exactly those which support us, and support can be done in many ways.

Now maybe he extended an olive branch I cannot see? I’ll have to re-read the topic to see his offer of working together…

Again, draw your own conclusions though. I don’t see a flamewar on TLR or Swat regarding here, which then results in people bleating back about how dreadfully uncooperative he is, or draconian, or just plain into sabotaging communities - but it does occur the other way around. Furthermore, it identifies TSP as an entity, and not individuals who actually posted before he arrived.

Individuals views are apparently TSP wide…