Brrr and wut wit TLR?

Apparently AzzA is having another go at Hamburg City and was trying to do it at TSP earlier today. Do you see what w0dk4’s point was about, now, OP? It’s not your fault, but that’s exactly what w0dk4 meant.

Holy Halleluja….

I will shed some light on some of the mentioned things here. I am already in contact with FF about the news thing. I did post a news (as news submissions were pleased to be posted :). Submission ended in a blank page. As myself wasn’t clear if the news submission would ever reach the inbox (to be posted later), I decided to post that thread that was already mentioned. Hence its a technical problem of that site. Just to finish this topic. For me it was OK to have the thread., finally. So its either my fault that i didn’t followed it any further that i was not posted as news, i didn’t even contact any admin here about it - also my fault Now we can quarrel who had which fault. But that leads to nothing, because both sides had their fault in not getting the news posted. Please consider this topic as solved now - its not relevant anyway for the topic of this thread!

Then the community bar thing. There are different versions, the SWATs one the TSP one (don’t know a third one). Basically its the same - namely a linking of other sites, belonging to this community and to offer a linkage between each other. The basic idea is really fantastic! And to get the stone into rolling again. I would consider it a community bar if we could finally act together and eventually get one community bar established that would sever all sites purpose (probably customizable for every site). So don’t lets quarrel about who used what which what restrictions here or there. Doesn’t really matter. Make the name of the bar (COMMUNITY) real. I would be pleased to cooperate with some folks to get this task finished.

And finally - this discussions here serves no other purpose than to reveal comments and arguments that have been raised continuously over the entire history of the lancers communities. We certainly can continue to quarrel again and again - and ahm again about the same problems and issues and probably would never come to a conclusion that suits all sides. For me important would be to somehow unite as a community and leave the arguments about each other in the past. Because actually thats my understanding of community - working together to serve the purpose so all can enjoy their part. Would make Freelancer stronger and we could strengthen eventually the player ship on ours all servers - because no one is really interested in all the pasts #$%%.

Thats just my 2 cents here. If needed i am willed to moderate to between TSP and SWAT and or TLR…

yea, cmon, let’s argument why we did the better job and the others did the worse. let’s discuss about events of the past, appreciation and ignorance, exclusion and all the blah (i have in fact missed the last page, didn’t want to read all that rubbish).
this is what is splitting the community and nothing else!!!
close this frakkin thread and get back to work. this will not result in anything rather than trolling. yes, it might be polite, intellectual and fact-based. it sounds barely like sorta courthouse discussion but in end, it is not more than TROLLING. you just do not use dirty language but your actual intellect.

that does not make it better.
dunno about other community members but me for instance do not care how much you like or dislike each other. for the aims we pursuit it is entirely irrelevant!

I’m not sure I agree with that, people are starting to sew the seeds of a future which might result in more of them working together. If what is required for that to happen is certain views being put forward in order to clear the air then why not let it play out. Good old fashioned diplomacy at work here featuring some names I haven’t seen in a long time, together, in one thread, that in itself is a good thing. Any progress is good progress.

Timmy51m wrote:
I’m not sure I agree with that, people are starting to sew the seeds of a future which might result in more of them working together. If what is required for that to happen is certain views being put forward in order to clear the air then why not let it play out. Good old fashioned diplomacy at work here featuring some names I haven’t seen in a long time, together, in one thread, that in itself is a good thing. Any progress is good progress.

Cause with a few exceptions, most of the issues are being aired for the twentieth time in three years…

I’m not joking…it really is the same stuff time and time again. It may be initiated by something new (this time supposed wish tlr was ‘gone’, but it always goes back to the same crap. It is clear that some really have an issue, but why it always boils down doesn’t mean it isn’t discussed. Just means it isn’t left alone - hence why I call it point scoring. E.g. the repeated w0dk4 tried to prevent gls work around. From memory I believe nothing was done about it til after the fact. Of course, those who claim to have been telling everyone this for years previously also didn’t actually do anything either. However, end result is that this means it was all w0dk4’s fault (or so you’d think from the hoo-haa this causes!)

What isn’t acknowledged during this is the vast in un-paralleled amount of good work he did before and after.

The accuser of w0dk4 then claims he never gets respect or acknowledgement. This one point really has been repeated for three years, trotted out as part of the ‘who has the communities best interest at heart’ argument. It’ll appear again, and again…

This has been repeated again and again over the last 3 years as Chips states, I’ve seen it as well.

I’m not sure I agree with Chips that it can’t be solved, unlikely as it is; it will be solved the moment OP, FF and some others calm down.

A little more point scoring:

SWAT_OP-R8R wrote:

i dont think that a new GLS is needed

even if you have one no vanilla players could connect there coz the ip is different so either you ignore the fact that there are vanilla servers which opens a wide spread range of possibilities to bypass the old GLS or you find another solution which would has the same effect

on the other side - why should we think about a problem that does not exist yet? and from what i know the GLS will stay online for some more years

Edited by - SWAT_OP-R8R on 10/20/2006 6:56:01 AM

Check it out, it’s a funny thread:
http://www.the-starport.net/archive/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=44511

Also includes a nice fight between Strail and Op.
Seems like I was more mature back then, ignoring Op alltogether. Or maybe I simply have enough from the crap thesedays.

Made me laugh

A lot

I think ignoring back them came because the thread had topic about work. These threads with arguments always just end up about Op, he hijacks to make it about him only, so its either post or ignore…

He was even doing it back then, just the topics were more robust I guess.

Don’t make fun of OP just because you dislike him, regardless he is running communities out there, and this certainly won’t help at least increasing the chance to remove the split.

I respect OP just for the fact he is running one of the most populated servers out there, without complaints. I don’t necessarily like his attitude towards you, but I don’t like your attitude towards him either.

The fight between OP and Strail was kinda funny, though.

w0dk4, I think your post is best served with a little reminder about what has been Op’s stance for the past few years over this issue: http://the-starport.net/freelancer/forum/viewtopic.php?post_id=15112#forumpost15112
That information was taken from the tlrfacts.tk site, which is now defunct (a site created, and run, by Op - where he wrote all the info).

In 2006 a guy called OP-R8R announced at lancersreactor.com that the global list server would get shut down one year later. A serious warning which got ignored by the community, by you. One year later the global list server got shut down and the Freelancer communit was not prepared for this case because they ignored the only person which had enough knowledge about this issue.
Result of this is that the entire Freelancer community lost about 2.000 online players until the first solutions to this problem were developed.

Doesn’t even mention who made the solution!

I’m not making fun, just pointing out how certain people present themselves - you can draw your own conclusions as to whether they are accurately representing themselves, or generating and perpetuating their own propaganda.

Like this one:

• Talking about mods. Do you even have an idea how many features that are used in modern Freelancer mods are based on OP-R8Rs concepts? Did you know that OP-R8R was one of the first modders and that much of todays modding knowledge is based on his work?

rolls eyes I’m not saying that Op didn’t make concepts at all - just that this is a hugely misleading statement, as it implies much more than is reality - and I know quite a lot of the “first modders”

Now again, I’m not making fun - but I am trying to point out that people should take things with a pinch of salt. I promise it’s the last i say about such things.

Just to clarify, I do have respect for people’s work and their contributions, not just here, but elsewhere.

However I do strongly believe that respect does not mean I tolerate their, for want of a better word, bullshit - and I will call them on it, or question it, where appropriate.

Some people really appear to dislike this…tough. Anyway, last I say

@Wolfie, Gisteron, etc.

I’m not sure you realize it, but right now you sound like the so-called sage guys who’re giving thoughtful suggestions up-front, but which have absolutely zero worth if you dig a little.

Do you seriously believe people can just do format and start over just like that? I’m afraid this runs too deep. Furthermore, this changes nothing about our differing opinions of a lot of matters. How do you propose we solve them? Just calling us out to agree is an extremely easy and extremely weak answer - it provides no insight.

If the solution was so easy, this whole ordeal would’ve been done a long, long time ago. I’m having no fun constantly bickering and getting bickered at by OP, and I’m sure the feeling is shared.

Think about it carefully: if YOU were at our place, what would you do? Be honest, don’t picture yourself as some sort of saint, or you’d just be lying to yourself.

I’m still waiting for an answer from OP…

• Talking about mods. Do you even have an idea how many features that are used in modern Freelancer mods are based on OP-R8Rs concepts? Did you know that OP-R8R was one of the first modders and that much of todays modding knowledge is based on his work?

Hey AdoXa… F!R… GLOCK!! u see this S*#T… ??

I for one have never gleamed any light from anything remotely close to Crossfire or OP-R8R… this aint a OP bash… far from it… i just think that statement’s total B&$^#&#**%&# I learn’t everything i know from the above 3 modders… i don’t see a OP in that list… just sayin…

Some pll should think before they spew forth generality’s like the quote above… comments like that further alienate the speaker… and really Pi$$ me off

FriendlyFire wrote:
@Wolfie, Gisteron, etc.

I’m not sure you realize it, but right now you sound like the so-called sage guys who’re giving thoughtful suggestions up-front, but which have absolutely zero worth if you dig a little.

Do you seriously believe people can just do format and start over just like that? I’m afraid this runs too deep. Furthermore, this changes nothing about our differing opinions of a lot of matters. How do you propose we solve them? Just calling us out to agree is an extremely easy and extremely weak answer - it provides no insight.

If the solution was so easy, this whole ordeal would’ve been done a long, long time ago. I’m having no fun constantly bickering and getting bickered at by OP, and I’m sure the feeling is shared.

Think about it carefully: if YOU were at our place, what would you do? Be honest, don’t picture yourself as some sort of saint, or you’d just be lying to yourself.

I’m still waiting for an answer from OP…

Don’t say that, I didn’t say start from scratch and all will be fine, I’m saying stop arguing in this thread as it doesn’t make things better.

OP left the thread.

Xarian_Prime wrote:

I for one have never gleamed any light from anything remotely close to Crossfire or OP-R8R… this aint a OP bash… far from it… i just think that statement’s total B&$^#&#**%&# I learn’t everything i know from the above 3 modders… i don’t see a OP in that list… just sayin…

Some pll should think before they spew forth generality’s like the quote above… comments like that further alienate the speaker… and really Pi$$ me off

What? You learned stuff from me? When?

AdoXa… F!R… GLOCK!!

Sorry Wolfie

maybe you should clear out your differences privately. we won’t get an own opinion by reading who is the worse of you. you both are important leaders, you should be sensible enough to clear differences. if you are not, than the community will split and there is neither a way around it nor anyone else but you two, gentlemen, responsible in the end.

don’t take it wrong now… but public treating of each other won’t hopefully make things worse but won’t definately make them better. no matter, who was right and who was wrong during the last years. atm you are wrong both.

edit: with you i rather mean the leadership of the two parties, not specifical persons.

This reminds me of the cold war.

Gisteron wrote:
don’t take it wrong now… but public treating of each other won’t hopefully make things worse but won’t definately make them better. no matter, who was right and who was wrong during the last years. atm you are wrong both.

I would like to point out, that from my perspective, Op continues to bring the issues out into public for discussion.

Draw your own conclusions as to the motivations, but personally it is pretty obvious. http://lancersreactor.org/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=2270&s=d1661660467f215d1a3c349db8ea66ce8f4c1f70

My try to get Starport involved in TLR failed and just alone my offer to work together after they bashed this site on their forum resulted in more unpleasant comments. I clearly can not agree with them that rebuilding TLR is a split to the FL community, as well as I can not agree to their methods. On the other side, Starport has not done anything constructive here before, so it is no loss at all. I’d like to focus on those which want and not on those which dont want.
Having that in mind I think it would be unfair when the supporters of TLR work for the good of the community and others which dont do take the benefits. Fair would be to support exactly those which support us, and support can be done in many ways.

Now maybe he extended an olive branch I cannot see? I’ll have to re-read the topic to see his offer of working together…

Again, draw your own conclusions though. I don’t see a flamewar on TLR or Swat regarding here, which then results in people bleating back about how dreadfully uncooperative he is, or draconian, or just plain into sabotaging communities - but it does occur the other way around. Furthermore, it identifies TSP as an entity, and not individuals who actually posted before he arrived.

Individuals views are apparently TSP wide…

tl*;dr x_x
=P

• • srsly, for how many years now?

You guys have seriously been having the exact same argument for 3 years? I was hiding under a rock called Asylum51 for a long time so I had no idea about any of this. I’m looking at this from a different perspective now.

I visited Lancers reactor a few times in 2004/5 ish not long after I got freelancer, tried one or two mods featured on there and just got stuck on A51, loved the community so much I never saw any need to wander about or try other mods, community was the key not so much the mod.

When Glock threw the towel in I found this place and kind of realised that I’d been stuck in a time warp, modding has moved on a long way and speaking for myself only, the key seems to be found here in this community. Glock showed me the way with modding, and he was really good and always willing to help, but things have definately moved on, so much to learn here it’s rediculous and at times I feel totally out of my depth as things are now more focussed on hacking exe, dll and editing ale files etc, things I had no idea about just a year ago.

I haven’t got any interest in trying to keep up with more than one community at any one time, this place is my new freelancer Asylum51, there’s plenty of nutters here and although there’s an evident lack of thorazine the padded cells are comfortable enough, hence my loyalty.

I’d say that if it’s the same argument you guys are having 3 years on from the split you’re talking about, then it’s of little consequence anymore. Everyone’s obviously moved on and all seem to be doing just fine having gone their seperate ways. Whatever potential small gains might be achieved by linking the two communities would likely be undone by all the bad blood that’s spattered all over the walls of this thread. Live and let live.