Milkshape: some practical How-To questions
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Bobthemanofsteel wrote:
In my very short test to make sure my memory hadn’t failed me, the duplicate should be selected after it is duplicated. Moving it away can be done using the move tool on the sidebar.Remember to move using the schematic (or whatever you call them) views, not the 3D view.
This is what I would expect - but it doesn’t happen this way. The original selection is dragged when I do it this way.
So, either both the original and the duplicate are selected (in which it would be quite difficult if not impossible to select only the duplicate unless there’s some trick to do that) or the duplication did not happen, or go wrong.
I hope my MS install is not corrupted
(It works fine in other respects, sofar, so that would seem awkward to me) -
Look in the groups tab! That’s how you know what’s what.
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Timmy51m wrote:
Look in the groups tab! That’s how you know what’s what.Not if I just select a couple of vertices. (in this case, the bumpy underthingee of the ship…)
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FWIW it doesn’t really matter what I select and duplicate. I can see the program thinks the duplication occured (judging from the ‘undo duplication’ in the edit menu) but it is still the original selection that remains selected (maybe including a 100% overlapping duplication taht cannot be moved separately).
Maybe I am overestimating the capacity of this duplication tool? Maybe it can just copy entire groups, as listed under the group tab? EDIT: at least it can do that.
So, I should duplicate the entire group my desired vertices belong to, not just these vertices, then delete the parts I don’t need.
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Aww, the duplicated group has no material asigned to it
I had hoped and expected it would. -
The groups tab is your best friend. Select the duplicated group only, check the material that was assigned to the group you duplicated, click the material tab, find the material in the list, select assign. I should imagine the material co-ordinates are duplicted too.
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Moonhead,
I don’t really understand what do you exactly want to do, but:
First: assign faces instead of playing with vertexes, you can turn on/off ‘ignore backfaces’ but in this case I mean you want to duplicate a vertical wing or what a hell is that you have to turn off backfaces ie: they are assignable.
Second: after you assigned the faces (ignore backfaces off, select) click ctrl+D, now the assigned original faces will be inactive and the new ie: duplicated faces will be active.
Now, you have to decide what would you like to do with this duplicated faces. By the way when you click ctrl+D you will get the new faces at the end of the group list.Third: Assign material for the new faces not a hard thing, as your duplicated faces are still active and others are not, click materials tab select a texture and ‘Assign’.
The texture will appear properly on only one side of the selected faces however, (left/right, top/bottom, front/rear) the others will be strip-like. You’d better regroup the new we can say body to additional two groups in order of the sides. It’s hard to describe and my english skill is not the best, but I give it a try: in default settings you normally have 4 windows: top left: front, top-right: left, bottom-left: top, and bottom-right 3D.
Before you do anything make sure your ‘select’ tab is active and the ‘ignore backfaces’ tab is off at the ‘Model’ window. Now you have the new faces/ almost body and it’s still active ie: red (others are not!) then–-> Edit/ Select Invert and ‘Hide’ at ‘Groups’ window. (to make things easier).
Now check the viewports and choose from one of the 3 views except 3D as we can’t do anything in that.
For example: you have a good view on that new wing at the ‘left’ view (I suppose it is on your image) so leave that as it is.
Choose the ‘front’ view and select all faces except the left right ones and top/bottom ones , they appear like lines. Now click ‘regroup’ at ‘Groups’ window. You have the new selected faces in red and the others remain white (inactive). If you do double click on the groups in the list they will appear as active or inactive. So, make the new groups inactive and make the original duplicated faces active and click ‘hide’ at ‘Groups’ window.
Now again double click on the new groups and check the last viewport. You need to regroup it again (select, and so on…)
to isolate the perpendicular or almost perpendicular faces.
This selection is needed to be done before the texturing process as you can work in only one plane (left/right, top/bottom, front/rear) in the texturing panel.When you regrouping the material will be the the same for each groups, but now you can modify them if you want.
Texturing: make the group active you want to work with then ‘ctrl+T’ and select the group from the list, choose a plane–> ‘Remap’ and check which fits to it and you can start the play (select, move, rotate, scale what you need).
Well, this description became very hard to understand, and might be confusing, but it’s not easy to describe it requires lots of hours of practicing (and suffering).
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the Sur file
I made a .sur the same way I made a .cmp. But it seems like it’s way too big.
I tried refining it with FLModelTool, but then the game hung.
Should I set the .sur exporter smaller than the .cmp exporter?
O btw, I thought those weird arrows in Milkshape were just a way to visualize hardpoints or so. But now there’s one visible in-game
Hmmm… maybe that’s why the .sur is too big (if this arrow, which flows above the ship, is rendered into collision data as well)EDIT: yes, ridding the arrow has improved the .sur.
Now I wonder how the ship will look as an NPC ship… I’ve only seen it as a player ship sofar, but I wonder whether it will dispappear when its center goes off-screen (in whihc case I would need to load it in FLModelTool - and I hope this won’t screw it up!). But maybe the .sur exporter has been developed in the last years. Anyway, this is for later.
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Davis wrote:
[…]
Well, this description became very hard to understand, and might be confusing, but it’s not easy to describe it requires lots of hours of practicing (and suffering).
I apreciate it very much!! But I will only go thru it tomorrow - gotta go sleep within an hour (have to work dayshifts tomorrow and sunday).
Right now I will just finish the thing I’m in the middle of.
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Arrow-like objects in imported models
What is the function (within Freelancer I mean) of these arrow-like objects that are present in vanilla models? It seems like I can just delete them without consequence - and if I don’t they might become visible in-space, so it’s kinda mandatory to delete them. But I don’t wanna run the risk that I later find out they have a vital function, hence my question.
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They’re the hardpoints! Like I said, use the groups tab, you’ll see everything listed in there. You can choose whether or not to import the hardpoints when you import the cmp. You’ll likely need to edit the hardpoint positions after you export an edited cmp, milkshape usually screws up their rotation and knocks them out of position by a few decimal places.
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Timmy51m wrote:
They’re the hardpoints! Like I said, use the groups tab, you’ll see everything listed in there. You can choose whether or not to import the hardpoints when you import the cmp. You’ll likely need to edit the hardpoint positions after you export an edited cmp, milkshape usually screws up their rotation and knocks them out of position by a few decimal places.Thx for the info!! I’ll redo the HPs in HardCMP then.
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Hardpoints and the SUR file
I’ve noticed that those hardpoints floating outside of the actual model, get solidified too when the SUR is exported. Is there an easy (as in “one or two clicks”) way to prevent this? Or should I just manually delete each and every of these hardpoints?
Doing the latter now, until I learn a better method.
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What are you saying? You export the cmp and the hardpoints get exported as mesh instead of hardpoints?
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Timmy51m wrote:
What are you saying? You export the cmp and the hardpoints get exported as mesh instead of hardpoints?If ‘mesh’ (a much-used word which meaning I never could nail down) means in-game material, yes.
And, it was also exported as surface-collision material in the .sur file. After I removed the outlying hardpoint arrows, and did the export again, the sur size was fine (as in: my ship’s visual boundaries matched its surface bumps)
I’m in some big operation now, doing 4 ships at once (three fighters and a freighter, based on the Hawk-Falcon-Eagle trilogy). If all goes well (and I hope I’ll finish it before my gf comes home) then deleting all the HPs before exporting the .sur is indeed the solution. Redoing the HPs now, then the .ini data, then see how they fly (or crash)…
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I’m no expert on milkshape, but i wonder if doing a “select all” and then “weld all” after importing a ship with hardpoints changes them to mesh or something. Maybe try select the model groups in the groups tab and only welding them as opposed to the hardpoints aswell. Might be nothing, but worth a try possibly.
You know when you use the cmp importer there’s a tab you can check which allows you to choose whether you import hardpoint info or not right?
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Timmy51m wrote:
You know when you use the cmp importer there’s a tab you can check which allows you to choose whether you import hardpoint info or not right?
yeah you told me so but I was already working on a model.
Weird mixed result, as to my present (above-described) project:
- overall fine: ships work fine
- the lightest fighter rendered a crash on launch
- not all the weapon hps I made, showed up. Shall go thru them tomorrow.
