1. The video link is not broken. Its working and still used on various other sites.
2. It was not just one member which tried to direct TLR members to TSP and it wouldnt have been the first time that this happened over there (if you remember this is how TSP was created)
3. Maybe you should ask Huor on such matters. He will tell you how rights on website content is transfered from one site owner to another and that it doesnt matter which domain extension the site has. But you also could read on that. There are enough sources on the net. Next to that didnt we receive anything from worfeh when we started to rebuild the TLR databases. We were pretty much able to reconstruct it from our own sources (which btw. explains how we reconstructed the entire TLR databases and not just a few posts and threads).
Funny is actually that you blame us for not allowing links to TSP while you are not willing to link to TLR aswell. What motivation do we at TLR have to allow it when we can not even expect same rights?

Well ok, I see that you are not willing to resolve anything. Goodbye, we see us in a few weeks when the next unreasonable claims against my sites appear here.

w0dk4 - i can understand that and i am sorry to hear that TSP is still victim of the attacks.

However the topic Azza is done for me. I asked him for TLR and I asked him to stop the attacks against the FL communities involved. Up to now he has kept his word and actually I havent seen him since november 2010.
Next to that AzzA never was the kind of guy which did hide from anything. When he ddosed you then he told you right in the face.

Probably he still does the attacks but he doesnt hide at TLR.

@sushi, who of the staff did something is not my problem,
fact is only that it was done and that it was one of our reasons.
I can understand and accept it is possible that news submission did not work due to a software failure. Ok, that happens. We couldnt know that and obviously you didnt notice it aswell for at least 1 1/2 years.

@Kazinsal
Do you really think it would be possible to disallow every eventuality that might be misunderstood by readers? If you start writing rules for everything that might happen or that might be said then you end up with a rulebook of thousands of pages. TSP also has no mechanism which would prevent such sort of stuff. The only thing an admin can do in such a situation is react (which I did btw.). Illegal activities itself are not allowed and prohibited by our rules.

To answer your question.
1. Because of TSP users which recently came to TLR and started to post links to TSP on every occasion eventhough the same topics and files could be found at TLR + their try to redirect TLR members to TSP.
2. Because of the removal of certain items from TSP -> such as the Crossfire video
3. Because of meanwhile 2 news items which never got the chance to be posted here.
4. Because also dont allow linking to TLR when people asked old FL related topics. You linked to the FL Archives instead to TLR where these “archives” originally come from.

Just to sum up. We had reasons and we have just set up the limitation a few weeks ago as reaction to the previously stated reasons.
The only linking that was allowed from here to TLR/SWAT is that small button on the left of this site. That is about the same that we have on our sites.

Maybe I wasnt the only person showing a negative attitudes towards other people. I remember getting at least the same amount thrown into my direction but ok, things happened. One word leads to another and everything leads to a big mess. However, negativity doesnt get anyone banned, broken rules (by purpose) do. Thats why one TSP admin was banned. For the other 3 bans I apologize.
Their appearance at TLR after almost 3 years not being there and just at a time that another TSP admin decided to break the forum rules in alphabetical order looked kinda “weird”.

I am not 100% why you think that weird jokes about other people or sites just happen at TLR. Infact it was the very first time that something like that happened since I am owner of that site. Next to that I only would need to browse through the recent threads about DVDMan/Polarbear to find 2-3 weird comments about TLR and SWAT.

Question would be how to prevent such stuff in future in the interest of both sides.

Yes, you are banned.

Explaination:
In november 2010 (about 1 week after I got TLR from its previous owners) four TSP admins suddenly appeared at TLR (probably as reaction of a mass mailing to inform the TLR members about the changes). One of them started to open threads and started flaming TLR, its old owners and the new ones. Banning that TSP admin succeeded only after the IP was banned as multiple accounts (6) were created by that guy that evening.
Banning the other TSP admins was a preventional measurement as we assumed they would start similar behaviour due to their appearance at TLR right at the same time. Since that the bans remained active.

If our judgement that day was wrong and the three remaining TSP admins did not mean to cause any harm then Id like to officially apologize to them.
(and of course will unban them if they wish)

And now a few words to the ddos stuff and pointing to one of my sites and one of my teams.
Now seriously… does it always have to start this way?
You see something and one moment later you point your finger either to me, my communities, my team… or whatever. Last time it was the tutorial issue that i proved to be wrong… now its ddos attacks. Every 2 months such a crap… thats annoying. It doesnt lead to anything good. So can we please stop this crap?

With the day that Ive taken control over TLR the attacks from there stopped.
You know very well that my own community was victim of the ddos attacks due to my support to TSP during the first year of its existence. I still remember all the nights that I talked with worfeh about these issues and how to stop them. I have never condone such methods nor will I allow it in future.
We have no interest in damaging TSP, we actually have no interest in doing harm to any FL community. That would be pretty much like shoting in the own foot.

You can consider Folgores statement about ddos as serious as the “•Get OP Skype for his Birthday, if not, gift him a time-bomb” that was said at the same post -> a weird joke

The TLR staff and modding teams consists of people from various FL communities. Some of them are regular users and well respected members of TSP. It makes not much sense that these people would cause harm to this place, dont you agree? I also vouch for Folgores integrity as he would not even consider to damage his good reputation as developer of various mods in different games.

If someone is attacking TSP then someone else is doing it (I would not want to point my finger on someone as I could not prove it).

TSP represents a big part of the FL community. So does TLR/SWAT. All troubles between our communities cause damage to FL. Nobody of us wants that. I can understand that personal grudges have a big weight but they harm both communities and finally the players. We should at least try to get along.

ah I see, all the bashing before was ok
but defending from false claims and showing the truth is not ok… thats drama then?
how about not bringing up such a crap in first place and finally playing fair?

@chips
thx for your try to clear up the situation, I appreciate that

why would i justify myself to ppl which host the entire lancersreactor database here without permission of the owner of that site (me)

that copy/pasting happens even from my sites to tsp can be seen on page 2 of this thread

furthermore just like chips mentioned at this point of time TLR was down and TSP was not even known so the SWAT Portal was the only place for archiving such stuff (and from what I remember a fairly large part of the freelancer community took advantage of the services that i offered and still offer)
AND I never claimed that this is my tutorial, everyone who has read the thread on my site would know that the “by SWAT_OP-R8R” is not even part of that thread
I have never claimed that this is my tutorial

I wish ppl would stop searching for reasons to constantly put false blames on me or bring up this personal crap over and over again (thats meanwhile the 3rd time in just one week that either my work or I get blamed/attacked for no reason from the same direction - thats pretty sick)

@Timmy
no I usually get pointed to such threads as I am busy enough with other FL communities

@w0dk4
I was not defending Azza but I was defending one of my communities which falsely got dragged into your problems. I clearly do not care about his current status here at TSP in the same way you didnt care about the fact that he was not active at TLR for more than 3 months when you wrote your comment about TLR.
I would gladly appreciate when you deal with your problems without involving other communities which have nothing to do with that anymore.
Thank you.

… which both have nothing to do with TLR for quiet some time. TLR and its related communities have absolutely no interest in the conflicts you might have with these guys nor do we wish to get falsely accused of something we are not even involved with.
You might probably also consider the fact that Azza is as much registered member of TSP as he is registered member on other FL communities.

would you please leave TLR out of this
nobody from there is attacking anyone
thx

hmm k

Difference between bp and me is that bp was not owner to TLR since 2007. He handed over the ownership to others (which as we know give damn about legal rights). During the past 3 years bp wasnt able to get TLR back but failed as he had no rights on it anymore.
Redundancy is good.
The redundancy is also not the problem as you can keep the data and host it again if things go wrong. What im trying to do at TLR with that data is not only hosting a “dead” (read-only) image of what it once was but a fully functional version that really can be used. In my eyes this would be very beneficial for FL players aswell as modders. Plus there is the fact that this fully functional database can be easily used to bring back old players and new ones aswell (TLR has a pretty good number of daily visitors).

@FF

Your Representations. By applying to register a domain name, or by asking us to maintain or renew a domai n name registration, you hereby represent and warrant to us that (a) the statements that you made in your Registration Agre ement are complete and accurate; (b) to your knowledge, the registration of the domain name will not infringe upon or other wise violate the rights of any third party; you are not registering the domain name for an unlawful purpose; and (d) yo u will not knowingly use the domain name in violation of any applicable laws or regulations. It is your responsibility to d etermine whether your domain name registration infringes or violates someone else’s rights.

The domain owner is always the one that is responsible for what is hosted on his/her domain. I can tell that by experience and because it is a written policy. Huor btw. also has forced me to remove some stuff from one of my domains some time ago (but we were never close to dealing it at a court).
Most likely situation that happens before anybody ends up in a court room is that the ISP that runs the server cancels the contract due to a violation of the contract terms. -> wouldnt be the first time that it happens in FL (eventhough it did not happen not a single time in the past 5 years).

Yes you are right FF, modding is illegal based on the EULA. That Microsoft actually as no problem with modding is shown by the fact that they link to modding sites and have hosted the biggest Lancer modding community and supported that community for 7 long years. No-CDs are not illegal. You can meanwhile (for 4 years) buy Freelancer CDs which inlcude no copy protection. Dunno about hooking… but I would put it in the same category as modding.

My request to get the archives only hosted at the site that they came from is based on obligations that i have to fulfill as new owner of that site, that these +20.000 TLR members have once registered on and agreed to submit their posts. This is about being able to fulfill my duty regarding this content, which is hard to do when it is hosted somewhere else.
I dont want to limit the access to the data, that is not my intention. I have not asked you to transfer anything to me (as this is not required) nor have i asked you to delete it entirely, so you can put it back online if I fail with TLR (or if you wish also if you think i broke my work regarding this database). You have in fact nothing to loose by agreeing to this deal, but both sides would win.

@chips
godaddy is a domain registrar, not a registrant/domain owner
if i recall right its the worlds biggest domain registrar
it hold no rights on those domains but i see that you know that already eventhough i am not quiet sure if i should laugh about the joke now (ill probably decide about that tomorrow)

the domain tells something different

Domain Services Provided By:
domain.com,
http://www.domain.com

Registrant:
Gary Roberson
Treyarnon, The Drang
Indian Queens, St Columb
Truro, Cornwall TR9 6PW
GB

Registrar: DOTSTER
Domain Name: THE-STARPORT.NET
Created on: 11-FEB-08
Expires on: 12-FEB-11
Last Updated on: 12-FEB-10

Administrative, Technical Contact:
Roberson, Gary
Treyarnon, The Drang
Indian Queens, St Columb
Truro, Cornwall TR9 6PW
GB
07865090055

Domain servers in listed order:
NS1.MDNS.NL
NS2.MDNS.NL

Reading the ISP policies btw. helps

why would i need such a tool when i have the original databases which are currently being integrated into TLR again?

either we can make a deal and stop this misery once and forever or we continue this crap with all its consequences (which of course is not your problem as cheeseontoast is the guy which is responsible for the data hosted here)

look
agree to the deal and all troubles between our communities are gone, furthermore you can take benefit from all the work we do at TLR

no w0dk4
keep the downloads, demanding them would damage TSP aswell as other FL sites and thats not in my interest

i just want the the hosting of that database transfered to TLR as the rights aswell as the responsibilty (a website owner also has duties regarding the data) over that database has been transfered to me.
I already told you that you dont need to destroy that database and that if I fail with TLR you can bring it up again.

You have no loss at all.

hmmm
why is it so hard for you to let a database that is not yours return to its original community?

i mean the data was submitted to TLR and actually u are wrong with the statement that it is copyrighted to lancersreactor.com and that godaddy would hold the copyright.
only natural persons or companies can hold rights by law and in case of websites the owner of the domain holds the right on the data. Only that owner is allowed to hand over rights to the next owner. This has been done, from BP to mentalchaos to azza and finally to me.
This is btw. law in almost every country on this planet (china and north korea excluded).
Right now the FL archives violates the copyright laws, the data privacy law (in somewhat more than 20.000 cases) and several laws regarding property.
So actually we can continue to argue over it which might lead to unpleasant results or we agree to let this personal crap drop finally and think about what is good for FL.

Is this possible or do we really have to go on this way?

1. You want that i dont bring up the past any longer? OK, you can have that. No such posts anymore here and on other sites.
2. In exchange I want that you stop bashing other FL sites including the SWAT Portal and TLR.
3. You want that I allow links to TSP and place links to it on my sites. You can have that.
4. In exchange I clearly want that the FL databases that you currently host gets removed. It will become part of the current TLR site where it will serve the purpose to bring new and old FL players to the Freelancer community. You will be able to access all the data that you can access now and even more as I am able to restore even more.
Right now you only use that archive to read on old threads, I will use it to bring old and new players to FL. Players that might end up on your servers. If you dont want to raise the daily freelancer player base by 50 players or 100 or more then just say it.

This is the deal i want to offer. A deal where no side does loose something but both can win.
So like LS said can we finally “STOP” it?

Sigh
so it doesnt matter if I am here or not, the bashing keeps going on
well ok, keep showing your real face then

after letting this issue drop for 2 days and being told that nothing has changed at all i came to some pretty simple conclusions

1. you said that everything FF and w0dk4 have done wrong in the past does not matter (no matter how much damage it caused)… ok
this statement is followed how many sites of bashing going into my direction?
How comes that the statement “past is past” does only apply to them? I mean you refer this right to yourself while you dont grant it to others and keep bashing them?
Based on “the past is past” everyone is free of guilt… you, me, mental, azza…
2. based on that i came here to let the past drop… i came here to make an offer… i clearly ignored my personal feelings towards certain people when i wrote my very first post on this thread. I was willing to lay down all grudges (and i meanwhile have repeated it 2 times) to make an offer to TSP. My first post infact did not contain a demand nor any hostile comments.
The offer i was going to make is exactly the same offer that the others got and those also were not faced by demands or anything like that. Furthermore it is to be said that i asked for permission to link back to features hosted by the other communities.
3. the very first demand was coming from w0dk4 telling me that I have to place a link to TSP on my sites and the blame that i am not hosting the TSP community bar
4. sticking with the links i have stated that i might consider to establish a policy at TLR not to link to a site that is bashing TLR members. You keep blaming me for such a statement but in the end it is the response to your behaviour. If you want this policy being lifted then why dont you stop bashing others?
5. you seem to have fun posting links to old threads where i did argue with others over issues that actually are not your problem. Here I would like to point you back to 1. where “past is past”.
Furthermore id like to point out that i easily could point ppl to at least the same amount of threads where you did the same. The fact that I have not done that here actually was meant to show a good will.
6. the offer i was going to make towards TSP showed my good will to resolve the issues between the communities aswell (until a certain point where ppl suggested i would side with hackers), actually doing so was already the first step which was clearly turned down in this thread
7. the FL archives will return to TLR and after this long debate this is my only demand.
7.1. The old TLR database will be hosted at TLR as it is clearly TLR property.
The ownership was handed over from BP to mental, from him to azza and now to me. I have started to integrate the old TLR database backups right into the new TLR site where it belongs.
7.2. I dont want to be unfair… none of the data will be changed or deleted… and you have the free right to access that data at TLR. There will be no restrictions.
7.3. I also grant you the right to keep a copy/backup of that database that you can upload again IF TLR has to shut down for any possible reason
7.4. I want that the current FL archives are removed from hosting
7.5. I am not making any demands to hand over the converted database to me (this is not needed)
7.6. as legit owner of lancersreactor (since yesterday) aswell as old and new administrator of that site can make it happen by law
of course it is not my intention to force this demand in such a way so
7.7. as alternative option here is my suggestion:
you believe that you have the right to host the TLR database (TLR property that you never had the right or permission to host) because worfey was able to convert and include it into a new forum (that was a previous statement of this thread).
So how about if i crawl TSP (should not take long) and host the TSP database, all the threads, posts and members at TLR. I am of course allowed to do that because i have the ability. You took the old TLR and in exchange I take the current TSP. Sounds fair to me.
Cause and reaction… remember this principle?
8. i suggest you finally stop telling around that azza and i would side to cause damage to others. In fact Azza is not TLR owner anymore, he does not belong to the TLR staff aswell as he does not belong to the SWAT Portal. There are no connections between me and him and he is as much member of TSP as he is on TLR. So if you believe that he is hacking your servers then you should be aware that he is a TSP member and that your problems with him are not my problems (and i say that because it is the same answer i once got from you).

Do you really want to keep this going on or is there at least the chance to resolve the issues?
Clearly this is the very last time that I reach my hand to prevent further troubles. If you want let the past go then you should be willing to let things finally drop. I am willing to do the same.

Excuse me now, I have a few communities to run. U know… helping players… getting old players back… getting new players to join… talking to server admins and such stuff.
Ill check back in a few days to see if the bashing keeps going on.

1. I dont make such statements out of personal reasons. I make them because it happened this way. “submission done” in my eyes still means “submission done” and not “submission is lost in space” -> excuse this example plz. I have personally posted that news just like i have done it to several other FL sites and moddb. I also have submitted a video, which i have to admit really got posted (after a very long waiting time). Huor has submitted news to TSP that was written by one of our members and as he has told me he also did a forum post just to make sure that nothing gets lost. Knowing huors skills i can clearly say that he knows how to hit a “submit” button.
Writing a PM to you is a matter i clearly tried to avoid after the fine talks we had in the past. That the submitted stuff was either not posted or with massive delay was actually answer enough.
Probably you just have a moderative problem, I dont know.

2. Last time ive been here, that was just a few weeks ago you actually have denied much of the stuff i did. And that is also something that really bothers me aswell as the fact that stating a different opinion always leads to flames here. I am clearly not used to that from other FL communities.

3. i currently dont see the point that point 3 was refering to so ill skip it

4. “The split was caused by MentalChaos and later AzzA and Knife, nobody else.” ok, let me get this straight
the community did split because MC was an asshole? With that statement I originally would be able to live…. if I wouldnt have offered a free hosting package to TLR prior the TLR meeting in november 2007 that would have kept TLR alive and TLR ownership at the old owners… that of course is not matter of problem… matter of problem is that someone (I am not calling names now) has muted me during that meeting and voiced big plans during that meeting. Well that is how MC got in charge. So actually MC is not the only one guilty. I know what ive done wrong, and ive no reason to hide it but i also know how to repair the damage, and that is exactly what i am trying to do.

5. I dont intent to keep the archives online. I intent to re-build TLR with everything that was written from the very first day till now, fully usable. I do what I have offered in 2007 (unfortunatly under the same good conditions). The content of the TLR databases belongs to TLR and to nobody else. (it is this way by law btw.)

6a. admiting a misread
but at the same time i probably should mention that OUR community bar linked to TSP for about a year (the link got a removed when this thread here appeared)

6b. Reminder on the discussion (or whatever you want to call it) at FLC. Exactly there people complained about your bar and the fact that during that time you didnt appear to listen to their complaints. At that time they requested from me to work on a new kind of community bar… so we started the work. Since the SWAT Portal aswell as Lancersreactor are multigaming sites a Freelancer Community bar does not 100% fit our needs. Next to that I personally consider your way of registration and moderation of that bar… lets say… complicated… too restricted… not free enough for communities. But… that probably does not belong into this topic.

6c. I explain what it has to do with it. You or better to say w0dk4 blamed us for using an own own community bar

I think what will mostly encourage any split within the FL community is Swat’s and now TLR’s seperate community network bar.

At the same time you introduce a banner/button exchange fully ignoring that other FL communities already have such a feature? Wouldnt that also split the community if the 2nd community bar does? Btw. did you already know what in fact 3 community bars are in use meanwhile? (just wanted to mention it)
Same rights for everyone, you use your own button exchange so we use our own community bar.

7.

As Chips said, that sounds suspiciously like a veiled threat. Do you realize to what level you’re threatening to go down to?

of course i do
but that clearly depends on if you bring it in connection with this statement

Therefore, my only fear is that those people will side with OP and cause havoc for sites that are in “competition” with TLR and/or Swat.

or if you point it to statements like this

We are not afraid of letting people link to other places and websites.

(btw. none of the both communities -> SWAT and TLR had such a policy active)
I actually thought statements like “I am not MC and I am not Azza” are pretty clear.

Oh and OP, first steps go both ways. I only see demands as if the entire problem was unilaterally OUR fault.

no no no
i came here to make an offer/suggestion
my first post never contained a demand
It clearly was not my duty to come here and inform you about the situation of TLR and make an offer aswell as it never was my duty to make similar offers to other people and FL communities. And while sticking with that it was also not Azzas duty to hand over the site and the domain.
I am not sure if you are actually aware how far I have stepped to make this possible and reach a hand. The response from the begining of this thread (ok ill exclude the first post) was unpleasant. Or in other words (sorry im a german businesman and we really talk this way) “we were kicked in our nuts”.

Think about me what you want but i believe in TLR aswell as i believe in the communities that offered their help.
Honestly i have meanwhile given up achieving something here. Maybe it was a bad idea involving TSP at all.
Just one thing: Have you ever considered that your decisions on behalf of the entire FL community (and you have taken yourself such a rights on some of your decisions) might cause problems to other FL communities? It wouldnt be the worst time to think about such a question.

I leave this thread to you now, dont worry i wont reply or visit back

1. no it is not the news that i was talking about
2. it was not the only news that were submitted to TSP (the news I submitted january during the mod awards also was not posted and there definitly was no problem with the site)
3. if you consider it a threat that i might consider not to allow links to a site that is constantly bashing us, well then i can not change it… take it as a threat, i take it as a possible policy