Brrr and wut wit TLR?
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Gisteron wrote:
don’t take it wrong now… but public treating of each other won’t hopefully make things worse but won’t definately make them better. no matter, who was right and who was wrong during the last years. atm you are wrong both.I would like to point out, that from my perspective, Op continues to bring the issues out into public for discussion.
Draw your own conclusions as to the motivations, but personally it is pretty obvious. http://lancersreactor.org/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=2270&s=d1661660467f215d1a3c349db8ea66ce8f4c1f70
My try to get Starport involved in TLR failed and just alone my offer to work together after they bashed this site on their forum resulted in more unpleasant comments. I clearly can not agree with them that rebuilding TLR is a split to the FL community, as well as I can not agree to their methods. On the other side, Starport has not done anything constructive here before, so it is no loss at all. I’d like to focus on those which want and not on those which dont want.
Having that in mind I think it would be unfair when the supporters of TLR work for the good of the community and others which dont do take the benefits. Fair would be to support exactly those which support us, and support can be done in many ways.Now maybe he extended an olive branch I cannot see? I’ll have to re-read the topic to see his offer of working together…
Again, draw your own conclusions though. I don’t see a flamewar on TLR or Swat regarding here, which then results in people bleating back about how dreadfully uncooperative he is, or draconian, or just plain into sabotaging communities - but it does occur the other way around. Furthermore, it identifies TSP as an entity, and not individuals who actually posted before he arrived.
Individuals views are apparently TSP wide…
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You guys have seriously been having the exact same argument for 3 years? I was hiding under a rock called Asylum51 for a long time so I had no idea about any of this. I’m looking at this from a different perspective now.
I visited Lancers reactor a few times in 2004/5 ish not long after I got freelancer, tried one or two mods featured on there and just got stuck on A51, loved the community so much I never saw any need to wander about or try other mods, community was the key not so much the mod.
When Glock threw the towel in I found this place and kind of realised that I’d been stuck in a time warp, modding has moved on a long way and speaking for myself only, the key seems to be found here in this community. Glock showed me the way with modding, and he was really good and always willing to help, but things have definately moved on, so much to learn here it’s rediculous and at times I feel totally out of my depth as things are now more focussed on hacking exe, dll and editing ale files etc, things I had no idea about just a year ago.
I haven’t got any interest in trying to keep up with more than one community at any one time, this place is my new freelancer Asylum51, there’s plenty of nutters here and although there’s an evident lack of thorazine the padded cells are comfortable enough, hence my loyalty.
I’d say that if it’s the same argument you guys are having 3 years on from the split you’re talking about, then it’s of little consequence anymore. Everyone’s obviously moved on and all seem to be doing just fine having gone their seperate ways. Whatever potential small gains might be achieved by linking the two communities would likely be undone by all the bad blood that’s spattered all over the walls of this thread. Live and let live.
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To be honest, we aren’t fighting unless OP comes around TSP. I personally have had no reason whatsoever to go on his site and give him a bad name there. He, however, has come quite a few times and each time it turns into a flame war.
As Chips says, see what you want to see out of it, but I personally have no vested interest in making war with any site and, in fact, get along pretty nicely with everyone but a few key individuals. Feel free to prove me wrong.
OP can do whatever he wants with TLR and if he is interested in directly participating with us (NOT making demands or blaming us for god knows what other things), I’d be fine with listening to him and maybe, who knows, agreeing to collaborate. If, however, he only lumps everyone together in one large blob and only takes the bad sides (some of which, I’m afraid, are entirely false), then I’d rather not have any contact with him as to avoid further unnecessary flame wars.
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Very nice to see the Freelancer community spirit alive and well .It is little wonder the Freelancer community is getting smaller and smaller every month. And just before any of you tell me to shut up it is players like myself who make up the community.
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I m old - and I remember old stuff pretty well.
Stuff still @ the forum (as linked by Chips above) and
other stuff, which has obviously vanished
(as most mentionable imho a post of OP in an open section
'I don’t want TSP to host my stuff anymore- remove it ASAP followed by a listing’
Hey and a short time l8r he was back,
to announce his all new upcoming mod. ).
And also I don’t think, it’s a good idea, to forget the past,
as it was suggested in hope for things getting better.
Closing your eyes won’t make things better
and to forget will just result in the same ol’ mistakes over and over again.
Don’t forget, but learn from the past, cause it will give an idea
of the presumable future.Recalling the past from my point of view, I can see self-praise and agitation
and other things I don’t like.
On the other hand I find a lot of well known names
looking through the credits of the ol’ WTS World mod
started by Crabtree long years ago - but nothing about OP.
And I doubt, he was forgotten. He 4 sure had told that.So after all I d assume that the only one,
who is intended to benefit from actions of OP is OP.
And if any of these actions should also cause benefit
for anything else, than OP and ‘his community’, it will
just be inevitable or accidentally or an attempt,
to get something from the ‘helped’ in exchange.
(Recalling that the argument for redrawing the stuff from TSP
was ‘not enough support for his community’ if I remember correct).Besides - does it really make sense to try to revive a site,
which redirected the link provided by MS to an other site,
you don’t want your children to visit?So overall by now nothing changed from my simple point of view.
But just w8 & c. - remove it ASAP followed by a listing’
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Timmy51m wrote:
You guys have seriously been having the exact same argument for 3 years?Yes, every time they get on the same forum this happens.
Timmy51m wrote:
so much to learn here it’s rediculous and at times I feel totally out of my depth as things are now more focussed on hacking exe, dll and editing ale files etc, things I had no idea about just a year ago.Not a surprise you had no idea about .ale editing a year ago, as thats been around for exactly that time, a year. Also, hex editing has been around for far longer than you can imagine in the FL community.
Timmy51m wrote:
I’d say that if it’s the same argument you guys are having 3 years on from the split you’re talking about, then it’s of little consequence anymore. Everyone’s obviously moved on and all seem to be doing just fine having gone their seperate ways.If they over 3 years get into the same argument for 3 years, does that mean people moved on? In this games community OP is the one who didn’t move on, and drags everyone back with him when he enters a thread, at least thats my opinion after considering all this objectively for a while.
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I really feel everyone just needs one big Hug….
Hug
Now Group Hug…
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Sigh
so it doesnt matter if I am here or not, the bashing keeps going on
well ok, keep showing your real face thenafter letting this issue drop for 2 days and being told that nothing has changed at all i came to some pretty simple conclusions
1. you said that everything FF and w0dk4 have done wrong in the past does not matter (no matter how much damage it caused)… ok
this statement is followed how many sites of bashing going into my direction?
How comes that the statement “past is past” does only apply to them? I mean you refer this right to yourself while you dont grant it to others and keep bashing them?
Based on “the past is past” everyone is free of guilt… you, me, mental, azza…
2. based on that i came here to let the past drop… i came here to make an offer… i clearly ignored my personal feelings towards certain people when i wrote my very first post on this thread. I was willing to lay down all grudges (and i meanwhile have repeated it 2 times) to make an offer to TSP. My first post infact did not contain a demand nor any hostile comments.
The offer i was going to make is exactly the same offer that the others got and those also were not faced by demands or anything like that. Furthermore it is to be said that i asked for permission to link back to features hosted by the other communities.
3. the very first demand was coming from w0dk4 telling me that I have to place a link to TSP on my sites and the blame that i am not hosting the TSP community bar
4. sticking with the links i have stated that i might consider to establish a policy at TLR not to link to a site that is bashing TLR members. You keep blaming me for such a statement but in the end it is the response to your behaviour. If you want this policy being lifted then why dont you stop bashing others?
5. you seem to have fun posting links to old threads where i did argue with others over issues that actually are not your problem. Here I would like to point you back to 1. where “past is past”.
Furthermore id like to point out that i easily could point ppl to at least the same amount of threads where you did the same. The fact that I have not done that here actually was meant to show a good will.
6. the offer i was going to make towards TSP showed my good will to resolve the issues between the communities aswell (until a certain point where ppl suggested i would side with hackers), actually doing so was already the first step which was clearly turned down in this thread
7. the FL archives will return to TLR and after this long debate this is my only demand.
7.1. The old TLR database will be hosted at TLR as it is clearly TLR property.
The ownership was handed over from BP to mental, from him to azza and now to me. I have started to integrate the old TLR database backups right into the new TLR site where it belongs.
7.2. I dont want to be unfair… none of the data will be changed or deleted… and you have the free right to access that data at TLR. There will be no restrictions.
7.3. I also grant you the right to keep a copy/backup of that database that you can upload again IF TLR has to shut down for any possible reason
7.4. I want that the current FL archives are removed from hosting
7.5. I am not making any demands to hand over the converted database to me (this is not needed)
7.6. as legit owner of lancersreactor (since yesterday) aswell as old and new administrator of that site can make it happen by law
of course it is not my intention to force this demand in such a way so
7.7. as alternative option here is my suggestion:
you believe that you have the right to host the TLR database (TLR property that you never had the right or permission to host) because worfey was able to convert and include it into a new forum (that was a previous statement of this thread).
So how about if i crawl TSP (should not take long) and host the TSP database, all the threads, posts and members at TLR. I am of course allowed to do that because i have the ability. You took the old TLR and in exchange I take the current TSP. Sounds fair to me.
Cause and reaction… remember this principle?
8. i suggest you finally stop telling around that azza and i would side to cause damage to others. In fact Azza is not TLR owner anymore, he does not belong to the TLR staff aswell as he does not belong to the SWAT Portal. There are no connections between me and him and he is as much member of TSP as he is on TLR. So if you believe that he is hacking your servers then you should be aware that he is a TSP member and that your problems with him are not my problems (and i say that because it is the same answer i once got from you).Do you really want to keep this going on or is there at least the chance to resolve the issues?
Clearly this is the very last time that I reach my hand to prevent further troubles. If you want let the past go then you should be willing to let things finally drop. I am willing to do the same.Excuse me now, I have a few communities to run. U know… helping players… getting old players back… getting new players to join… talking to server admins and such stuff.
Ill check back in a few days to see if the bashing keeps going on. -
I thought the archieves “belonged” to lancersreactor.com? Or am I just remembering the adress wrong?
Isn’t the info actually intellectual property of those who wrote it?
I’m not into all that legal stuff, so I’m just asking a question here… More of those may come later.
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w0dk4 wrote:
I understand that you “reaching out” to us means that you allow us to take down the TLR archives before you take legal action.
How noble.That’s pretty much what I had left once I ran the post through my bs filter.
An incredible offer for sure, definately for the good of the wider freelancer community, definately of no benefit whatsoever to OP.
I think I’m finally beginning to realise that OP’s actually an extremely generous person, completely selfless in all respects, a model citizen, saviour of freelancer! Yes, it’s clear to me now, the starport is evil, but look, over there in the distance, a shining beacon of light, thank the maker! It’s OP, guardian of the holy lancers reactor archives and he’s brought a tube of superglue to seal the great community divide. And they all lived happily ever after…. until that bloody wAzza showed up with his malicious botnet army and destroyed the holy archives. That’s right, the only story that has a happy ending is one that has not ended yet.
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Oh, so now coming in and immediately antagonizing TSP, making it seem like it’s either “the FL community” or “Starport” as if Starport would not tolerate the other communities AND as if it wasn’t part of the community, is actually leaving the past behind and making an offer?
Wow, OP, just wow. You can’t help it, can you? I think any kind of collaboration with you is out of the question. Too many threats against this site, too much slandering. There’s a limit to everything. I’ll happily deal with those 3 or 4 communities directly, but I don’t need your bullshitting filter applied to whatever I say should I let you act as an intermediary.
You are the owner of lancersreactor.org. This is, legally, not the same company. You have absolutely no more right on the archives than we do. No contract was signed. The information was available to all and is actually the property of the posters.
If you want to play dirty, OP, and threaten us to take legal action, you’ll notice that you don’t have as much leverage as you think you do. You said you would not, but simply mentioning it is already way too much. Don’t you think we have enough to deal with with the constant ddos we’re getting from your new friend?
Take the current TSP if you will, static pages aren’t worth much, and most people would rather deal with real people (ie those who visit the forums, those who created those posts you seem to value so much) than browsing through threads and threads of information, most of which is a repeat of the repeat. You seem to have forgotten what makes a community, OP. Your actions definitely don’t speak of a person willing to put the past behind them.
Oh and, I’d really love to know what I or w0dk4 did wrong in the past. That should be interesting.
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I had to resist the O RLY? owl for the first demand…
A few observations:
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w0dk4 clearly made a suggestion, not a demand - and you keep asking people not to twist your words? :roll:
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Please provide a list of TLR members being bashed :roll:
(if the list is just you, the bashing is clearly independent of TLR, so your policy in this is null and void) -
Your offer?
OPR8R wrote:
So here is my suggestion:
Those ppl which have a problem that we build up lancersreactor again should stay away from that site and such discussions once any forever, since TLR obviously is not your business anymore.
All others… the people which want to support us… the people which are actually interested in the Freelancer community instead of only being interested in TSP… these people clearly free to be part of our “community project” and can of course benefit from it.You mean your suggestion? :roll:
- You legally own the database? (the domain name is irrelevant, but you keep talking about TLR as if it means something!)
Honestly, had you got TLR up and running perfectly - then I wouldn’t have been surprised if the archives had disappeared.
Instead, you’ve the diplomacy of an Aardvark :roll:
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i agree, this suggestion is less a suggestion than an insult… you give us the choice of either dislike you (which is in fact not to set in any connection with your work or TLR in general) or to support the community that is not progressing anymore which in your words meaning being interested in the common mission.
no, i don’t think, TLR is the core of FL anymore and that our admins do not agree with you is definately not because they dislike your doings we all benefit from. you don’t have to tell us again and again, that without you the community could have died a long time ago. we thank you for what you did but thats it. you can expect that we do our jobs, you can expect kudos but i can’t think there is anything more you can really get.you are important but you are not the sun we all should be running around. we thank you. but that’s your paynment, there isn’t anything else we can do. and not everyone, who doesn’t help you is automatically working against. not every non-friend is an enemy.
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That should be the case, normally. Maybe TLR made you relinquish your ownership when you posted, though, I don’t recall the exact terms of the agreement.
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Isnt the owner of a domain the owner of the content? I mean nearly no one is posting stuff that is legally his own property in relation to copyright (only a few exceptions - where normal post like all the within here posted are not). Because only if its copyrighted you can demand removal because its your property and you can deny a third party the usage.
Due to this reason site owners are responsible - more or less about what is posted in their forums and have to correct posts if its against any (national or international) regulation.
Holding more than one copy of sensitive data for me is more a question of data privacy. But in ages of Facebook and all the social networks this word became obsolete anyway. Good that there are regulations that nearly no one is obeying^^ And that no one is complaining means not its legit
Nevertheless it seems a cooperation wont be possible under all the prejudices and intolerant behaviour of both or more parties. Actually i am asking myself what is everyone fearing? Is there something sensitive to hide?
