SUR importer plugin problems
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When using the SUR importer plugin with vanilla surs, it imports extra meshes that do not appear in HardCMP and gives them hashcode names similar to ‘Mn_00000270’ and ‘Mn_00001600’.
These meshes seem to be surplus because they do not follow the shape of ship parts and are also in odd positions or angles when you look at them in MilkShape.
They are listed in FL Model Tool, however, but the hashcodes do not appear to be genuine and may be a misinterpretation of other data - maybe these are offset values and have something to do with our “sur Normals” problem?
In passing, you will see that the shield bubble sur group is named by its hex code ‘0xF00FB9DE’ which is ‘HpMount’ - this is how it’s linked to the HpMount entry in the shield_link = line in shiparch.ini so this is understandable. The author of the importer (and also the author of FL Model Tool) didn’t make the entry for this bubble, and this is why it shows by its hex hashcode.
However again, this HpMount bubble is imported twice for vanilla ships - it’s given the “hashcode” ‘0x00001600’ in the case of the cv_elite and ‘0x00001360’ in the cv_fighter. Here’s a partial listing of the latter…
Triangle group header :
Offset3 : 0x00000670 - (1648) Offset to vertex buffer
TriangleID Â : 0x00001360 - “Unknown_Mesh_00001360”
type  : 5  - Primitive = D3DPT_TRIANGLESTRIP
no_ref_verts : 156
Padding4 Â : 0x00
Tricount  : 102  - No of triangles in group (0 -> n-1)It feels like an offset value to me but then I am not knowledgeable about this subject.
It appears that other standard ship part names are correctly translated by the importer.
Can anyone shed some light on this?
Am I using an incorrect SUR importer plugin?
Or maybe I am asking “Can someone fix it with a new plugin?”
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what importer version are you using?
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Hard to say, the version shows as 1.0.0.1 in Reshack, and the copyright date 2004.
Is there another version anywhere?
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thats the same version as mine, i dont get any issues with mine (that ive run into) what file are you importing?
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Many standard FL ships that I’ve imported have this problem, they include the following:
StarBlazer (OK it’s not a finished ship so ignore this one)
cv_elite
cv_fighter
cv_startracker (has extra wings that are decoded)
cv_vheavy_fighter
bw_elite
and others.Mx_f00fb9de is the shield bubble, its code is the hashcode for HpMount and is correct, it’s only showing as the hashcode because it’s not in the decode tables.
The usual hashcode pattern for the duplicate shield Bubble is Mx_0000xxxx (0000 + 4 hex digits).
Typical hashcodes for the extra surs are Mx_00000270, Mx_00000290, Mx_000003d0 (00000 +3 hex digits)
This is why I believe they are offsets.
Import cv_elite.sur and cv_fighter.sur, then you will see duplicates of what appear to be the wing and fin surs but they are in wrong places. They have the hex codes Mx_00000270 and Mx_000003d0. Mx_00001600 and Mx_00001360 are copies of the shield bubbles. Again they should not be there, and I think they are incorrect interpretations of other data, which may well be why our home-built surs don’t work correctly.
The reason we can’t re-size sur-spliced surs is because the sur parts move to the origin. If you look carefully, this is because the surs don’t contain the part offset co-ordinates, which are normally stored in the node Cmpnd\Cons\Rev (UTF Editor).
Is anyone in contact with Devast8r, who wrote sur-splicer? Maybe he can help shed some light for us and maybe (hint!) help make an improved plugin.
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FFS doesn’t anybody read my posts, the only thing wrong with the importer is that it doesn’t read the offsets for all of the hitboxes in a SUR.
Those extra bits are in every single vanilla fighter/freighter sur that I’ve ripped apart, they are IMHO the final level of detection in the SUR.
IIRC (I’m going from memory here as I no longer mod, and it’s been 18 months since I last ripped open a DA SUR) there are 4 levels in a shield bubble type SUR, dual detection, collision detection, weapon hit detection and what I call collateral detection.
The main Root is always the first part as this is dual detection, you can sometimes find secondary Root’s further down the list, I believe they are there deliberately to stop them interfering with the main the Root.
The first shield bubble is usually next, neither bubble actually registers in game.
Next comes some equipment hitboxes, they are dual detection just like the Root, cross reference with the CMP and you’ll find those hardpoints are assigned to the Root in the CMP.
Next up is the first instance of the components and the other hardpoints, everything from here until the second shield bubble is single detection, it’s entirely your choice as to wether you think it’s collision or weapons detection for these parts. From here on down things are listed as the are assigned in the CMP ie. a component then any hardpoints assigned to it.
Now we have the second bubble, like the first it doesn’t register in game.
Now we come to a strange area, in here we have two types of detection intermixed, the remaining parts are also single detection. In this section any component with an assigned hardpoint also has an encompassing hitbox, these hitboxes are the fourth level of detection.
When I first started getting working SURs (well over 2 years ago now) all of my ship SURs were built like this, but once I started doing [CollisionGroup] I found that I needed to build them in a less complex way. You see the 4th level in a vanilla SUR doesn’t register but instead passes on info for the hitboxes it encompasses, unfortunately the same can’t be said for the exporters version (both 1.1 & 1.2), they register and pass on to the Root almost 100% of the damage that should be given to the [CollisionGroup]. They also interfere if you finally manage to get enough damage to register with the [CollisionGroup], those on the right side of the ship blowoff, but the ones on the left CTD each and every time.
I’m pretty sure that the hex number ie “00000270” is a hardcoded reference for FL to tell it what that part is for, which is probably why the exporters version doesn’t work as FL doesn’t recognise it.
Reguarding resizing, like I’ve already told you ST, if your doing multi-component CMPs & SURs throw FlModelTool in the trash can, it seriously fucks up everything you’ve just done with the exporters. I haven’t use it on a CMP since I wrote my “Basic SUR for a Basic CMP” tutorial, before I quit modding FL I only used it to change the type (no resizing) on single component SURs, this way I could get custom shield bubbles, damage caps & weapon SURs to work properly.
OT: This will probably be my last post in the FL community, I haven’t done any serious FL modding in 6 months and only came out of retirement to help make SURs for Gibbon’s mod, and with that I’m out of here, catch some of you around some time ;).
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OT: This will probably be my last post in the FL community, I haven’t done any serious FL modding in 6 months and only came out of retirement to help make SURs for Gibbon’s mod, and with that I’m out of here, catch some of you around some time ;).
Dang, sorry to hear this. Thanks for your help and wisdom over the years.
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Hey, Bejay!!
Thanks, this is extremely useful although still bare-bones to me.
AND DON’T GO!
I FORBID IT!
Keep yer 'at on, and keep patience fer uz Sachsenhauseners for a while longer, Tarry a while!
The reason we didn’t know this info is that your posts probably went down with TLR, bud.
And - heheh - we’re a LOT younger and so less experienced than ye, dare I say it?!
We need your knowledge, urgently. And it is ALWAYS appreciated, contrary to your belief pal.
So-
Pass on wha’ ye ken 'afore ye go!(uh - is it “gae”? or is that another rood wurd these days?)
I hold you and those others with the knowledge who departed without divulging personally responsible for the eventual death of this community!!
Furthermore, if you are not heard from every day on these forums at least to give some good-natured comments of encouragement and good direction to us Knights of the SUR, the SUR-Hunters, I will commence to incite war on Scotland, especially St Andrews, where I have many connections! Not the least of those being St Andrew himself, as Patron Saint of both Cyprus and Scotland he prefers our weather to yours!
And we have made a pretty passable equivalent to your inferior Scotch, we call it Five Kings Brandy! He drinks it all the time, on the quiet!
What do you say to that, then? Huh? Huh?
I AM MONITORING FOR YOUR RESPONSE TOMORROW AND EACH AND EVERY DAY HENCEFORTH!
SO SHALL IT BE WRITTEN, SO SHALL IT BE DONE!
Bleaaagh!(Huh? What? Oh yeah,so yeah, it’s already been written, I just did that, didn’t I! Heh… Silly me!)
So let’s let it be done then!!