[Freelancer Mod News]Jason's Freelancer Patch
-
I had no idea vertical strafing would cause such controversy. But what can I do about it? Can’t really make it an install option, since that has the same problem. Besides, I think it’s still possible to add the keys directly to UserKeyMap.ini, so it doesn’t matter if the controls are present in Options or not. I guess I could add an optional patch to jflp.dll to prevent reading the keys. I believe anticheat utilities can then detect a modified jflp.dll/dacom.ini?
As for rolling during mouse flight, I might be able to override the mouse flight flag and get it working. No promises, though.
-
Yes, of course it is still possible - But 1.) it makes it much more easier for the player to edit vertical strafing settings and 2.) they may think then that it is ok to use at any server. so people might even didn’t wanted to cheat, they just didn’t knew about that some server admins/players don’t like to see such a feature used at their server.
I personally give you the advice to remove it. It is just an advice from a mate, but still your decision what do you want to do about it. -
The way I look at and I do agree with Bas, is, anything that alters the original functions of any mod placed on a server for others to use is to be use as is and not altered in any such way. Many server rules state that you are to use this >MOD< only. Cheats, Hacks, Altering the .inis is cause for banishment. It’s just a hack for any server. If you intend to pursue offering this mod with no real intentions of doing harm, maybe you should make it only useful for SP and not useful for servers.
Here’s a thought, start surfing the forums and read the server rules for a while and you will see that what I say is true. This may and will get many players banned if they think they can just use it freely without the worry of getting banned. They will get caught and they will get banned per server rules.
Anything that alters a client side mod is cheating. Just as if you were to use the Speed Mod to get around a little faster, it’s harmful but, it’s still cheating.
It disrupts game play on any server.
In-game message on my server is as follows: Rules for now are simple. Cheating = Ban. Foul replies or chats = Ban. Hacking = Ban. Any questions?
-
**Umm, SSM has included 4 directional strafing for nearly 4 years, plus every other single key that FL supports. The method I used is to reduce strafing amounts to a small amount, this allows the player to avoid long range shots but up close it is useless. My mod also includes sub-system targetting, thruster on/off and many more such features. Since it is there already, all players can use it. Once you get used to it then it becomes extremely helpful, especially when trying to dock with the cap ships and the most massive transports, just center on the dock and hit F3 and your in. Not trying to knock the vanilla servers but its there and can easily be used without you knowing it.
On mods that don’t support it natively, it should be considered cheating, umm, add it to your mod and stop the problem, plain and simple. Give the players the ability to set up their keys to use it.
Another use is going through asteroid fields, the 4 directional strafing can make a huge difference as to whether you are bouncing off of the rocks or gliding around them.
Just my 2 cents worth…
http://digitalbrilliance.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=281
BTW, rolling is bugged in FL and will cause rotation lockups at certain angles, this modification is not recommended.**
-
On mods that don’t support it natively, it should be considered cheating, umm, add it to your mod and stop the problem, plain and simple. Give the players the ability to set up their keys to use it.
For PvP or PvP-driven servers this sounds like ‘give eagle 5th 10-class gun HP’ or smthing like that, i think you get the point.
-
**Strafing is natively supported in 4 directions by FL, add an anticheat for the servers that don’t support it. Forgot to add that to my last post. On my MOD it really helps when NPCs are pounding the crap out of me and taking my hull to almost 0.
And no, it isn’t nothing like what you said of giving a 5th Eagle a class 10 wep, strafing is totally different. I have played many games and FL is one of the very few where strafing in 4 directions isn’t common. As I said, add it, problem solved, this really is not a big deal except on vanilla servers where an anti-cheat solution is needed as posted above.**
-
It’s being blown out of all proportion if u ask me. Like LS says, it’s not like adding an extra gun and the vertical strafing part doesn’t add that much. Logically there should be strafing on all axis, it’s simple physics.
If admins don’t want it on their servers, they only have to say so in their rules. As mentioned before, the vertical strafe code has been out for years, since around 2004 so while some of you haven’t come across it before it’s been out there. You’ve probably even come across it and not realised. Couldn’t be stopped then and can’t be stopped now. End of.
I have it included in my mods because then its a level playing field for everyone, use it or not, it really is that simple.
-
Without offense, I know that this post might look aggressive, but: Gibbon, Lancer Solurus, you are RPlers, aren’t you?
I and Outcast are pvp dudes, so we can tell much more about the advantages in pvp, can’t we?
(We simple have more pvp experience which tells us how strong vert strafing really is)I won’t have a problem if you add it to your mod (and even less if you have another FL version), because people normally stay with their mod at the server created for it.
It IS a huge impact on pvp, I was able to gun down dudes I would have lost normally quite easily.
It can be very imba.Players who don’t use it can’t use the counter axe either, so they can’t navigate against the other player moves.
PLUS, don’t forget W0dk4’s posting about makro users. (THIS! is very imba…mom I search the video we Imperiums recorded once…
http://rs205.rapidshare.com/files/122896143/makro_user.rar
Especially watch for ~32-End of the first video)
Just download the movie and watch, normally even one of us dudes would be necessary to take this player down, but with stupid makro (or not) he was just evading like hell while it was VERY DIFFICULT to even hit him, also if we were just a few meters away from him.
Topic:
http://freelancerserver.de/v2/viewtopic.php?t=15937&highlight=makro+user+vale
Well…you could make the patch as a FLMOD file
If the game version would change after activation of such a “feature” so the user won’t be able to conncect to any FL serversI won’t have a problem at all I guessSome players and admins simple don’t want the feature at their servers, and even less integrated into their mod. Not to count the modless servers.
I mean…for me it sounds a bit like: Oh, let’s increase the cruise speed for SP. Oh, it is nice, I have integrated this feature into my mod and into many others. It is also aviable as a other single mod.
So integrate it into your mod or stop crying.(Please…the text above is diffinitivly not meant as a personal attack, just how it does seems to me. Just because YOU like the feature it doesn’t give you the right to decide it for others, or does it? So better let every server community decide by itself if they want to have such a server feature or not. )
And you also don’t want to hear the voices of those who say that it HAS a huge impact on pvp. But those are who will feel this impact the VERY MOST.
-
Add a warning to your patch: “The extend controls feature of this mod might be considered cheating on some servers”
Removing the feature won’t stop cheaters using it.
adoxa wrote:
Besides, I think it’s still possible to add the keys directly to UserKeyMap.ini, so it doesn’t matter if the controls are present in Options or not. I guess I could add an optional patch to jflp.dll to prevent reading the keys. I believe anticheat utilities can then detect a modified jflp.dll/dacom.ini?You are right. This might be the only way to prevent the use of 4 strafe. But I don’t know how many servers are using a clientside anticheat… without it this solution is useless
-
**No offense taken at all. Im actually surprised at the coverage this is getting. Especially since left-right strafing comes in the default FL installation. The keys are already set up. Also, I do alot of PvP and I use it then as well. The difference is that I have it adjusted per ship class, bigger is slower.
The macro program could be a big pain but without anti-cheat that detects such usage, you can’t stop it. Posting rules will only work for those who follow them….
Hehe, no, I’m not saying to add it if you don’t want it on your server, I was providing a solution to the problem. For vanilla servers, unfortunately it will always be a problem unless some type of hook is added or anti-cheat is added to that server. For me that isn’t a problem since all of my ships have already been adjusted to a low value.**
-
I would like to add that, if you’re using this patch on your server or, have it incorporated into your mod, that’s fine with me and I have no problems with it. However, there are many servers out there that don’t and many of them have specific rules concerning the use of added mods on their servers. If caught, you’re banned, it’s as simple as that.
I think it may be a great disadvantage (for many for the wrong reasons) for this patch to be available to all who come here and read this and download for the simple fact that, they will proceed to use it on any server they wish to join, causing problems and therefore getting themselves banned.
In the very beginning of this subject, it should have been moved to the Private Section, for Admins & Server Ops to discuss because that’s all I see reviewing it here. Naturally, others that don’t run servers will be reading this and many have more than likely, downloaded it by now.
I had, a few days ago thought about joining your serve Solurus but now, that I know it’s being used there, I have declined. Why, simply because I consider myself a PvPer and am good at it. If I were to have joined your server and not known of this patch being used, I would have more or less been treated like a n00b for not being able to figure out as to why I would be getting killed so easily and not able to hit my target.
I have been to many forums (many of them over the past couple of days looking for this subject) and am registered on them and I have not read on any of them that this patch is being used so, I think that all that use it in their mods or on their servers, if not mentioned in the read-me, you should make it as a notice in your Server News to inform those who have not been there to know what’s going on and that you may need to dl this patch in order to have a fair advantage against all that do use it on your server.
Like Bas said, it’s not up to you, (not pointing at you personally) to decide who uses this program on any server. It’s up to the operators of the server to decide and most of all, the mod creator.
This is an issue or post that should not have been viewed in public and should have been moved to where all Admins have their say and can decide from there as to how this should be viewed and or available for usage. Not the Creator, or the General Public.
Nothing against you adoxa or your ability to create this sort of programming but, you should have used better judgment before posting this subject in the general Forums.
It may not be of any good now but, I still think it should be moved. The download be moved into the Private Section in order for Admins to decide if they want others to use it and provide the link to it from their forums or add it to their mods as they build.
We’re trying to gain players to keep Freelancer alive, not ban players for using a patch that many may decide is a cheat and runs players away because of it.
If a player is using this patch and were to decide to jump on my server to check it out and was caught using this type of patch there, especially if he’s not registered, without my knowing about it or allowing it, that player would be banned instantly and that’s not what I want or enjoy doing.
JMHO is all.
-
**@ HunterKiller - sorry you don’t want to join, the strafing is pretty useless in PvP, it only helps if they are more than 5k from you. Once you are in normal PvP range (less than 3k) the weapons hits are very hard to avoid. I have rebuilt the scripts multiple times to make sure this is the case and finally ended up writing a ship scripter and rescripted every ship. Once I did that the PvP advantage of the strafing was killed off…
Anyways, hope it all gets worked out, most of the largest mods already have this so it won’t make a difference on those. The vanilla mods are a different story though.**
-
Add a warning to your patch: “The extend controls feature of this mod might be considered cheating on some servers”
I think this is the best solution to the “problem”.
Anyways, I dont really get what the big issue is.
We have not really complained about small optional mods that alter pvp gameplay in the past, so why do you do that now?
Cheaters always get their cheats (as silly as that sounds), but the more ppl know about the “cheats”, the more likely are anticheats and attention on the players side to catch those cheaters.So I think its BS to discuss these type of things in private or to force adoxa to remove 4-way strafing in his patch.
-
To state my position, I’m not going to remove vertical strafing from my patch. I have added a warning to my site and will add it to the patch for the next release (should there be one). Could the warning be added to the download description, please? (…vertical strafing (warning: considered cheating on some servers);…) For servers that use client-side anti-cheat, I am quite willing to provide a modified jflp.dll (or stand-alone dll) that will disable vertical strafing (or even all strafing, if you really want to be militant about it). That’s all I’ll say on the matter.
@Xarian_Prime: there’s a new version of jflp.dll that allows rolling to work during mouse flight.
-
Changed the download’s description.
I think this settles the issue for everyone nicely, thanks adoxa.
-
Thankx Adoxa 8-)
Will have to watch for that sticky bug Lancer mentioned… but its always great to have new tech to play with in XLR… I’ve had vertical strafing for a long time now I see it as a needed fix… and should never have been kulled from the original game… but each to their own i suppose, hehe.
-
w0dk4 wrote:
So I think its BS to discuss these type of things in private or to force adoxa to remove 4-way strafing in his patch.
No-one that I can see was asking him to remove it. It was only to express that many servers don’t allow added patches to their mods or server. Just like the Speed mod, if caught using it, players get banned.
The warning is a good idea and was something that should have been thought of in the first place. At least be real about it. I’m sure of I were to jump on your server with something you didn’t allow , I would be banned, I’ve seen your ban list and many others around the Freelancer Community.
As a Server Op and Owner, I think you can understand my reasons. If I were to download a patch that I believed was innocent to be used everywhere and jumped on a server that didn’t allow it and got banned for using it, I wouldn’t understand because I can use it everywhere else and get away with it.
With a warning attached, it gives the user an option to decide if whether or not it’s allowed to be used on that server. If he uses it anyway and gets banned, that’s on him and not the server.
It’s all good and no-one here was wanting anything removed as it may be beneficial for some servers.
HK
