Questorial: FLModelTool / Fl Sur Builder
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_Today I’d like to coin the word Questorial (if it doesn’t already have a meaning, that is) meaning: a question-driven tutorial. That way it makes it look like I’m not just nagging you people with n00b questions, but actually am contributing by stimulating the community’s educational skills :lol:
Of course, other people’s questions on related matters should be asked here too._
So, this thread is dedicated to the FLModelTool that Anton created ages ago.
My goal is to add a huge towerlike structure to my mod. It will be a satellite type thing, in fact a space_habitat_wide enlarged by a factor of 25.
This is what I’ve done sofar:
1. copied space_habitat_wide.3db and space_habitat_wide.sur to my mod folder, renaming them space_habitat_wide_x25.3db and space_habitat_wide_x25.sur
2. Opened, resized (by 25) both files and saved them
3. Activated my mod, started Freelancer (duh)
4. took a look in the custom star system.
At first sight, all seemed fine. There was indeed a huge Space_Habitat_Wide where it should be.
But I have two problems:
1. There is no collison data; I can just fly thru it. What did I do wrong with the .sur file?
2. This is an old problem; I remember reading about it but can’t remember what the fix was: the Space_Habitat_Wide can only be seen while its center is somewhere on the screen. As soon as the center of the thing is offscreen, the whole thing disappears. And, likewise, when I turn towards it, it only shows up after its center comes onscreen.
Sofar my educationally stimulating questions. Thanks for your time reading, and hopefully answering them!
EDIT: changed the title to include Fl Sur Builder in it.
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The answer of the second question is easy:
Without working sur the game doesn’t know where to show the visual part of the object. If you got a working sur, you should see it everytime without seeing the origin. -
Skotty. wrote:
The answer of the second question is easy:
Without working sur the game doesn’t know where to show the visual part of the object. If you got a working sur, you should see it everytime without seeing the origin.Thanks! So, problem #2 is merely a sympton of problem #1…
It’s kinda odd that the sur doesn’t work. I remember this tool was not that hard to use… Maybe the original .sur file of the space_habitat_wide isn’t that good… Or maybe there is a maximum enlargement the tool can handle (unlikely, but I’m guessing)
Anyway, any ideas anyone?
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Gibbon wrote:
When you resized the sur file, did you save it as the correct type? It should beEquip/Ammo/Damage Section
It’s possible you saved it as something else which would definately cause issues
I found it. Actually i had seen that, but forgot
And already changed it from “damage object” to “station” coz it didn’t work…But I’ll try again.
Thanks!!
EDIT: It didn’t make any differences :(. I even tried to save it as a ‘scenery’ object, but that didn’t help either.
Well, gotta go now. I hope to continue my investigations this evening.
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Seriously guys? You’re still recommending to resize vanilla SURs for custom models?
I’m sorry, but LS’s tool is already functional and is many steps above that. Whining that it only does convex SURs so far does not change the fact that it is much better than attempting to poorly fit vanilla SURs onto new models.
So stop right now and grab the utility there:
http://digitalbrilliance.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=3318#3318The ONLY reason you wouldn’t want to use it is if you already have near-perfect custom SURs, and even then you most likely will still have errors on them. The SUR exporter is broken in too many ways to list, most importantly because the format was never completely cracked to make it.
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FriendlyFire wrote:
Seriously guys? You’re still recommending to resize vanilla SURs for custom models?I’m sorry, but LS’s tool is already functional and is many steps above that. Whining that it only does convex SURs so far does not change the fact that it is much better than attempting to poorly fit vanilla SURs onto new models.
So stop right now and grab the utility there:
http://digitalbrilliance.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=3318#3318The ONLY reason you wouldn’t want to use it is if you already have near-perfect custom SURs, and even then you most likely will still have errors on them. The SUR exporter is broken in too many ways to list, most importantly because the format was never completely cracked to make it.
I’m glad to catch that on my way out. Thanks very much, FF!
I’ll report later
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I get an error message when I try to run the app ()
This application has failed to start because d3dx9_41.dll was not found. Re-installing the application may fix this problem.
Now what?! How do I fix this?
I’ll google for that .dll, but if anyone here knows what or how, please inform me!
EDIT: Cool, I found it on the web, downloaded it (had to struggle thru a forest of advertisements prompting me to install their registry managing software) and put it in my system 32 folder. Now at least the app works
So, moving on to the next problem :roll:
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You need the latest DX redistributable from Microsoft, 2009 version or higher.
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Ehh :-? I indeed managed to create a .sur file, quite amazingly because the program didn’t let me know it did anyhting and I also couldn’t see anything (had expected some visualization). So I looked in the output folder, and there it was.
Put in my mod, but I still get the same result: no collision data, and disappearing when the center goes offscreen.
So, any suggestions? Maybe I didn’t use the app properly?
Meanwhile I’ll google the forum. I guess this kind of thing must have been discussed earlier.
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LancerSolurus wrote:
You need the latest DX redistributable from Microsoft, 2009 version or higher.That. It’s not because you added a single DLL that you have everything; there may be something missing that you need to add.
Otherwise, you’ll have to play with the settings. There WILL be a visualization of the SUR when it’s setup properly.
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FriendlyFire wrote:
LancerSolurus wrote:
You need the latest DX redistributable from Microsoft, 2009 version or higher.That. It’s not because you added a single DLL that you have everything; there may be something missing that you need to add.
Otherwise, you’ll have to play with the settings. There WILL be a visualization of the SUR when it’s setup properly.
I completely missed LS’s post! I will go after it. Thanks guys!!
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Okay, I installed DirectX End-User Runtimes (February 2010) and i guess it’s adequate, coz the app seems to work.
Yet the in-game issues with the model remain: no collision, and disappearing if the center is offscreen. Ergo, no properly working .sur file.
Btw, the visualization in FL sur builder only works, when I, under Min-Max Sort, chose “Disable Sorting”
I’ve also tried with, under Secondary Sorting, “Disable Sorting” both selected and unselected. It didn’t make a difference.
The only thing I can imagine (but as you may guess, I’m not very skilled in this field) is that the .3db file itself (space_habitat_wide.3db, enlarged with FLModelTool by a factor of 25) is not very suitable to create a .sur off… On the other hand, it’s a simple octagonal cylinder-like shape, and it looks fine in-game.
Anyway, as usual, I’ll be happy with suggestions, advice etc.
Thanks!
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Only the one that created a visualization is going to be able to make a valid sur. Once it does that and animates it (unless you turned off animation). Simply click ‘Make Sur’ and copy the .sur file over the station’s sur file. Both the cmp and sur should be in the same folder. FL does have a command you can use that will allow you to put sur files into anothe folder, IE ‘sur = filepath’
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LancerSolurus wrote:
Only the one that created a visualization is going to be able to make a valid sur. Once it does that and animates it (unless you turned off animation). Simply click ‘Make Sur’ and copy the .sur file over the station’s sur file. Both the cmp and sur should be in the same folder.That’s what I have done. I only got a visual with Disable Sorting.
Maybe I should try another value for Duplicate Radius? I’ve tried 1 and 10 (because in the readme you wrote that small ships and weapons work best with 0.1). I’m gonna try it with 0 now…
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Another thing that was reported to me yesterday is the very large models were having collision misses. Since I can simply generate a cube shape sur to test (only 12 surfaces, 2 per side) I am going to do some research into that problem. May need to increase the face density over large open areas of the sur.
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I tried it with any of the 3 Min-Max sort options, and Duplicate Radius 0. Without succes - the issue persists.
@ LancerSolurus - can I send you the 3db file so you can have a look? Email it or upload it thru rapidshare? (btw No Problem if you don’t want to.)
EDIT Again I miss a post! Just read your last one. Yeah my model is quite large. Not huge, but large indeed. So I guess I’ll best await your investigations on the matter.
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FriendlyFire wrote:
Seriously guys? You’re still recommending to resize vanilla SURs for custom models?I’m sorry, but LS’s tool is already functional and is many steps above that. Whining that it only does convex SURs so far does not change the fact that it is much better than attempting to poorly fit vanilla SURs onto new models.
So stop right now and grab the utility there:
http://digitalbrilliance.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=3318#3318The ONLY reason you wouldn’t want to use it is if you already have near-perfect custom SURs, and even then you most likely will still have errors on them. The SUR exporter is broken in too many ways to list, most importantly because the format was never completely cracked to make it.
While this might be sound advice in general, note that Moonhead is merely enlarging a model already present in FL, and so using FLModelTool to enlarge it actually makes sense in this case. That, in fact, would be the route that I’d take, although I don’t understand why it’s causing issues. It does have the same name as the model, right?
MK
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@MK: Agreed for this very specific instance, but in general, that shouldn’t be the case. Since Moonhead seemed to want to apply this method to everything, I thought this was antiquated.
As with everything, different methods can serve different purposes.
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Moonhead:
If I remember correctly the model disappearing from view when its centre is off-screen is because the bounding box of the .3db/.cmp is incorrect.
I know I have fixed this in the past, just can’t remember 100% but I think you need just to open the .3db in FL Model Tool and just immediately save it again?
