FLServer and the future
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Nice try Wolfie (a few posts back, to get it on track)
kosacid wrote:
i belive lance is working on a engine wee might be able to useKosacid - any more details as to what this means? Right now itâs a little too cryptic for me to be able to get the gist of what you mean
All the Linux vs Windows, DirectX vs OpenGL⌠unless anyone really works with either or both of these, then I donât think itâs right to say which is best without sources (Bas provides some, but I canât help feeling that source is biased
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@ Chips - this http://ss.galaxyempire.com/index.php
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Basâ source is biased.
FF: What GPU features then? If Iâm not wrong OpenGL 4.0 slapped DX11 all over the face.
What you said might have been true for OpenGL 2.0 to 3.0, those were a mess.
Chips wrote:
Nice try Wolfie (a few posts back, to get it on track)I obviously failedâŚ
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Well, I think OpenGL is kinda less popular to developers because new features are added via extensions and often this results in an extension mess whereas DirectX has some rather strict rules as to what a Direct3D card has to support.
The OpenGL extension mechanism is probably the most heavily disputed difference between the two APIs. OpenGL includes a mechanism where any driver can advertise its own extensions to the API, thus introducing new functionality such as blend modes, new ways of transferring data to the GPU, or different texture wrapping parameters. (âŚ)
On the other hand, Direct3D is specified by one vendor (Microsoft) only, leading to a more consistent API, but denying access to vendor-specific features.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_OpenGL_and_Direct3D
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Games are produced on the back of an investors money, seeing as the majority of people who use linux etc donât see fit to invest money in so much as buying an OS, what would lead those developers to believe that they would spend money on the software and games they run on it. Games also need good graphics drivers, Nvidia and ATI invest a lot of cash and engineering man hours in many of todays quality games, their return is in the hardware we buy to run the games, at present that would be something with a dx11 sticker on it. Again, they probably think linux users dont invest in the OS, so probably have a piss poor computer, probably donât invest in regular graphics cards upgrades, probably pirate their games, probably donât pay for anything at all if they can help it, so screw em. The linux argument is just like that horrible little whining noise you get in your ear from time to time, it happens for no good reason and once it starts it just doesnât seem in any hurry to go away.
You are moving on a very thing ice here, without meaning to be offensive towards you.
Games are produced on the back of an investors money, seeing as the majority of people who use linux etc donât see fit to invest money in so much as buying an OS, what would lead those developers to believe that they would spend money on the software and games they run on it.
Oh?
You know, many Linux users still own a M$ license from before they swtiched to Linux and not such few are using it still in a dualboot. They are using Linux because they think it is the better OS (or at least the better OS for them), not mostly because it doesnât cost anything. You can try to find a Linux user which never had Windows license before, but should be hard to find.
Or they are using Linux because it is free software. Free as in speech, not as in free bear. Not to mention that Linux is incredible stable and in my eyes less buggy.
For instance, it sucks to me pretty much that my Windows XP eats more ressources than Linux, plus, I hate those message windows which arenât displayed at the taskbar. You know, those in the background, such as âpropertiesâ-windows or finished installation.
At Ubuntu I had a task in the task bar whcih showed me every window (it isnât such filled up as you might think) so no problem to re-find âlostâ application windows at all. Then, there is the package manager which simple is by far better than Microsoft Windows Software Center. Need an app? Just search directly at the Linux Software Center, click at Install and let it be downloaded and installed automatically.Plus: How many percent of the Windows copies are pirated anyways?
So be careful about saying that ONLY Linux users arenât willing to pay for an OS.Plus²: If you read that one artcile correctly, it is quite interesting that Linux users did donate about twice as much per user as windows users, so you can hardly say that Linux users arenât going to pay for any things which are good.
Donât assume that Linux users donât upgrade their hardware at all. This seems to me like a speculation of yourself, nothing more.
They do pirate games more? Wouldnât pirates pay less for games than non-pirates (I am referring to this humble bundle thing again)?
I personally believe even that Windows users are pirating more, There is proprietary (âun-free Softwareâ, closed-source, in this case also commercial) Software like hell at Windows, and I believe once a user has started to pirate software regulary they will hardly stop doing it. Just my own speculation, anyways.
I also think if you have a lot of free software aviable it is more likely to pay for good software simple because you have more money left.Again, this isnât a post against yourself or meant any way aggressive, I just disagree with what you are saying.
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When it comes to paying, Iâm a Linux user and certainly donât mind paying for something, fact is I wonât pay for Windoze.
I bought a lot of software I think is good.
EDIT: In other words, you shouldnât assume Linux users donât upgrade hardware and never pay for software. I know many Linux users that do both of those happily, and some on a daily basis.
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Wolfie wrote:
Basâ source is biased.FF: What GPU features then? If Iâm not wrong OpenGL 4.0 slapped DX11 all over the face.
What you said might have been true for OpenGL 2.0 to 3.0, those were a mess.
Chips wrote:
Nice try Wolfie (a few posts back, to get it on track)I obviously failedâŚ
Iâll kindly point out two things:
A) You said that OpenGL 2.0 and 3.0 were a mess. That we can agree with.
B) OpenGL 4.0 is only supported by the GTX 400 and HD 5000 series and above.Therefore, developers can either choose to support DirectX 9 and 10 or OpenGL 2 and 3. DX11 and OGL4 are, for the moment, a tiny slice of the market.
What do you think devs will do?
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Bas wrote:
Games are produced on the back of an investors money, seeing as the majority of people who use linux etc donât see fit to invest money in so much as buying an OS, what would lead those developers to believe that they would spend money on the software and games they run on it. Games also need good graphics drivers, Nvidia and ATI invest a lot of cash and engineering man hours in many of todays quality games, their return is in the hardware we buy to run the games, at present that would be something with a dx11 sticker on it. Again, they probably think linux users dont invest in the OS, so probably have a piss poor computer, probably donât invest in regular graphics cards upgrades, probably pirate their games, probably donât pay for anything at all if they can help it, so screw em. The linux argument is just like that horrible little whining noise you get in your ear from time to time, it happens for no good reason and once it starts it just doesnât seem in any hurry to go away.
You are moving on a very thing ice here, without meaning to be offensive towards you.
Games are produced on the back of an investors money, seeing as the majority of people who use linux etc donât see fit to invest money in so much as buying an OS, what would lead those developers to believe that they would spend money on the software and games they run on it.
Oh?
You know, many Linux users still own a M$ license from before they swtiched to Linux and not such few are using it still in a dualboot. They are using Linux because they think it is the better OS (or at least the better OS for them), not mostly because it doesnât cost anything. You can try to find a Linux user which never had Windows license before, but should be hard to find.
Or they are using Linux because it is free software. Free as in speech, not as in free bear. Not to mention that Linux is incredible stable and in my eyes less buggy.
For instance, it sucks to me pretty much that my Windows XP eats more ressources than Linux, plus, I hate those message windows which arenât displayed at the taskbar. You know, those in the background, such as âpropertiesâ-windows or finished installation.
At Ubuntu I had a task in the task bar whcih showed me every window (it isnât such filled up as you might think) so no problem to re-find âlostâ application windows at all. Then, there is the package manager which simple is by far better than Microsoft Windows Software Center. Need an app? Just search directly at the Linux Software Center, click at Install and let it be downloaded and installed automatically.Plus: How many percent of the Windows copies are pirated anyways?
So be careful about saying that ONLY Linux users arenât willing to pay for an OS.Plus²: If you read that one artcile correctly, it is quite interesting that Linux users did donate about twice as much per user as windows users, so you can hardly say that Linux users arenât going to pay for any things which are good.
Donât assume that Linux users donât upgrade their hardware at all. This seems to me like a speculation of yourself, nothing more.
They do pirate games more? Wouldnât pirates pay less for games than non-pirates (I am referring to this humble bundle thing again)?
I personally believe even that Windows users are pirating more, There is proprietary (âun-free Softwareâ, closed-source, in this case also commercial) Software like hell at Windows, and I believe once a user has started to pirate software regulary they will hardly stop doing it. Just my own speculation, anyways.
I also think if you have a lot of free software aviable it is more likely to pay for good software simple because you have more money left.Again, this isnât a post against yourself or meant any way aggressive, I just disagree with what you are saying.
Thatâs exactly what I expected, it was no mistake, I was deliberately pushing buttons. Linux users are the computer worlds equivalent of a religious fanatic, all singing quotes from the same hymn sheet. Sure the words come out in a different order sometimes but the message is always the same. Bottom line, it doesnât matter what linux users think about linux, itâs not a commercial interest. Did the ice just get even thinner? Go for it man.
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Thatâs exactly what I expected, it was no mistake, I was deliberately pushing buttons. Linux users are the computer worlds equivalent of a religious fanatic, all singing quotes from the same hymn sheet.
Oh, and fanatic Windows users are better, eh?
Also, most Linux users HAVE used Windows before or still do. The same canât be said about Windows users. So the Linux users know at least about what they are talking.
Have YOU tried out Linux?
I suspect no, and so you donât know such much about the system, or do you?
I am also at Windows XP for the last weeks since FL & Gothic I doesnât work such well with my graphics cards driver at Linux. Oh, wouldnât a fanatic deny to his death to use Windows?Sure the words come out in a different order sometimes but the message is always the same. Bottom line, it doesnât matter what linux users think about linux, itâs not a commercial interest. Did the ice just get even thinner? Go for it man.
WRONG. Linux is definitivly commercial in some ways. They are firms out there, like Fedora or RedHat, which sell their Linux distributions for money to other firms.
Did you even read that blog entry from wolfire? Linux users DID pay more on an average basis than Windows users did. They arenât taking things only if they are free.PS: If you are willing to try out Linux I am willing to give you some assistance, you donât even need to install anything if you just want to try it out (you can start it from the CD for testing purposes).
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Brilliant! Câmon man, how easy was that? I was clearly baiting you and still you had to bite. I give you a few reasons why thereâs no commercial interest in making games for linux and you go off on some crazy tangent like all linux users do as to why linux and itâs users are great, it makes no difference, itâs still not a commercial interest for investors.
For heavens sake, is it not open source? Totally at odds with any commercial interest by itâs very nature, the people involved and itâs users fight each other as much as they fight everyone else that doesnât adopt their model. Thatâs what I mean by fanatical, youâve just tried to convert me too, youâre all nuts!
Business is business, itâs ruthless, targets, deadlines, efficiency, productivity, differentiate or die. Everything would be worthless if the business world just burnt all their patents and copyrights then uploaded all of their concepts to the net.
Open source is more like democracy, debate everything, debate some more, argue a little, disagree about everything because everybody wants something a little different, it might work sometimes but bloody hell you need a truck load of paracetomol and a few decades to get there.
Your turn you crazy lunatic.
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Brilliant! Câmon man, how easy was that? I was clearly baiting you and still you had to bite. I give you a few reasons why thereâs no commercial interest in making games for linux and you go off on some crazy tangent like all linux users do as to why linux and itâs users are great, it makes no difference, itâs still not a commercial interest for investors.
I didnât knew you were asking for games only.
For heavens sake, is it not open source? Totally at odds with any commercial interest by itâs very nature, the people involved and itâs users fight each other as much as they fight everyone else that doesnât adopt their model. Thatâs what I mean by fanatical, youâve just tried to convert me too, youâre all nuts!
I am not sure if the commercial Linux distributions like Fedora and RedHat enterprise are open source but I suspect they arenât.
There is definitivly a lot of money made with free/open-source software (Those two distros above are based of open-source code).I invited you so you could get a different point of view. Donât make me to a fanatic because I am friendly.
If I sounded in any way offensive to you in this or my prior posts, I honestly apogolize for that, it wasnât meant that way.
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Donât be daft, Iâm only having a bit of fun here, just pulling your leg thatâs all. Itâs one of those topics where you know your guaranteed to piss somebody off. :lol:
P.S - windows users are fanatical too, but rather than defend the platform they constantly complain about how crap it is, but when you pay for something you expect it to work! Right?
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Timmy51m wrote:
Brilliant! Câmon man, how easy was that? I was clearly baiting you and still you had to bite. I give you a few reasons why thereâs no commercial interest in making games for linux and you go off on some crazy tangent like all linux users do as to why linux and itâs users are great, it makes no difference, itâs still not a commercial interest for investors.For heavens sake, is it not open source? Totally at odds with any commercial interest by itâs very nature, the people involved and itâs users fight each other as much as they fight everyone else that doesnât adopt their model. Thatâs what I mean by fanatical, youâve just tried to convert me too, youâre all nuts!
Business is business, itâs ruthless, targets, deadlines, efficiency, productivity, differentiate or die. Everything would be worthless if the business world just burnt all their patents and copyrights then uploaded all of their concepts to the net.
Open source is more like democracy, debate everything, debate some more, argue a little, disagree about everything because everybody wants something a little different, it might work sometimes but bloody hell you need a truck load of paracetomol and a few decades to get there.
Your turn you crazy lunatic.
Making fallacious comments about how utilising free software implies that all Linux users are thieves to make some non existent point that is at best tangental to the underlying topic isnât something Iâd personally go around trumpeting as being entertainment for you at the expense of someone else.
This thread was sinking into the ridiculousâŚ
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Canât we have any fun around here Chips? Talk about boring, if everyone around here is supposed to act so serous all the time itâs no wonder thereâs always so many arguments and fallings out. Two people having a laugh and you try to turn it into a problem. Maybe you have a seriously big wooden spoon and you like to stir with it, by that you know what Iâm referring to, is that your idea of fun?
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Timmy51m wrote:
Canât we have any fun around here Chips? Talk about boring, if everyone around here is supposed to act so serous all the time itâs no wonder thereâs always so many arguments and fallings out. Two people having a laugh and you try to turn it into a problem. Maybe you have a seriously big wooden spoon and you like to stir with it, by that you know what Iâm referring to, is that your idea of fun?ignores
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Timmy: That wasnât the point, the point was that the thread is originally about the problems caused by IPv4 addresses running out, and it somehow ended up into a Linux flamebait thread.
Let me tell you something:
Every fanboy out there is the same as a religious freak. In the graphics card market Iâve seen pretty retarded remarks from both nVIDIA fanboys and ATi fanboys, in the graphics API market I always see people arguing about DX vs OGL and never actually come up with reasoning behind their arguments. In the console market I see the stupidest comments on earth about the different consoles, except from Apple fanboys maybe.
What you all should know:
Fanboy/girlism is free advertising for corporations, its what they want. Arguing about Windoze vs Mac is pointless as its all up to what you use the OS for, and only gives the two most monopolistic software giants out there free publicity.
This thread wasnât supposed to be a thread about what attitude the average Linux user has, it wasnât supposed to be an OGL vs DX thread, it wasnât supposed to be a flamebait thread, and it certainly never meant to be another Windoze vs Linux thread. It was supposed to be about, as I said earlier in this post; about the future of FL and the âcollapseâ of IPv4.
Now, on what you said about corporations not wanting to release on Linux because it has to be open source is not true. Final, no more arguing, you can release closed source on Linux and thats a fact, its not illegal and you wonât be sued.
Now, weâre done with that, lets get back on topic.
TL;DR
IPv4 is running out of addresses, will be obsolete soon and not used at all, FL doesnât like.
Wat do?
