Anyone else still need a SUR generator?
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Tested for 5 hrs, no crashing. I had to stop because I wanted to use my computer for other things. Not sure what’s up, but the surs are fine with my setup. To review how I tested this:
Empty system. Nothing in it except ambient light.
One base to undock from
Just the ships in questions attacking each other for 5 hrs. I was flying one of them as well.That’s it. 5hrs, no crashing, no errors.
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Sushi, many thanks.
There is another angle I am trying to isolate if you have the time please:-
My crashes happen by a single NPC faction attacking the base ship, and adoxa has narrowed the crash to a possible munition collision.
This doesn’t sound completely convincing to me.
My theory is hull to hull collision, maybe when an NPC with the sur crashes into the base ship hull. It does not crash when I use the same base ship and use any vanilla sur for the NPC faction with the same DevilRay or Manta ship.
Could you please use one faction with the DevilRay or Manta, one at a time, and make them hostile to your base, let them attack it and be killed by the base please?
I really would appreciate you testing this method, it is such an intermittent problem - if it fails for you in this way then we can be almost certain it is a ship to ship collision problem that happens so rarely.
By the way - I am assuming you are not using any error-preventer hack?
Thank you.
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Thanks adoxa, will do asap.
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adoxa wrote:
StarTrader, log the packets and find out exactly which type of collision it is (or mail me the hopefully highly compressed *.bin and *-bad.txt files). Sushi, I hope you’re testing with MP (I expect you are), since SP doesn’t have this problem.Ya, always test in MP.
@ST: I’ll retry when I get a chance.
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Sushi - I ran it your way last night, I set the test-sur NPCs wth the DevilRay to neutral to the base so it would not attack them, and had my Lib Navy (vanilla ships and surs) attacking them.
Guess what - it ran clean for 2 hours! I didn’t have time to test longer, but normally it will fail within 10-20 minutes every time when they are attacking the base ship.
So I think to be conclusive I would like to see what happens on your machine when you set them up (one faction only) to attack the base ship/station so it kills them.
A base ship with a custom sur would be more accurate, as that is what I’m using, but mine is huge - 1800 metres long, so if it is a hull collision it may still not happen on yours if your base ship is small.
I will set up adoxa’s traps to see what collisions we catch in any case.
Thanks again.
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If you are interested, this is the mod I was using, Junkers and Hogosha using the bad ships and fighting in front of Manhattan.
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Quarks wrote:
Since I have this problem, too…I just jeplaced the li_fighter’s model with Startrader’s ship and edited the loadouts, then edited the manhattan pop zone, nothing else. So usually there should not be any problem.Thanks Quarks.
So you get the same problem just by having the two factions kill each other?
Not by attacking a base, right?
So my hull to hull collision theory is wrong, I will do more extended combat testing too.
Many thanks guys, it will be great to identify the cause of yet another rare crash problem.
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Well, it might have happened because one of them flew against a tradelane ring…
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A question regarding this SUR Generator:
It seems to create a SUR per mesh group, which is nice, however… I tested it with one CMP which was a bunch of convex chapes I made using “Convex Tool” in MilkShape, and the SURs that this Generator created was a bunch of thin triangles. Really weird.
I’m really not quite sure how to use this app and can’t seem to find a proper tutorial on it.
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Tried Quarks mod. Crashed reasonably quickly (the last packet sent was FLPACKET_SERVER_DAMAGEOBJECT, with different parameters to all other such packets). Applied my two plugins, which caught two more (another damage object; the other one’s time didn’t correspond exactly, but FLPACKET_SERVER_DESTROYOBJECT was likely), but none after another hour. Restarted, but still none after more than an hour. Restarted, and still none after almost an hour. So StarTrader, don’t bother running Packets; GetCollisions probably isn’t worth it, either; GetRoot will prevent the crash, though. Once I finish off tweaks to Console, I’ll get to work on the MilkShape sur exporter.
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BlueSpawn wrote:
A question regarding this SUR Generator:It seems to create a SUR per mesh group, which is nice, however… I tested it with one CMP which was a bunch of convex chapes I made using “Convex Tool” in MilkShape, and the SURs that this Generator created was a bunch of thin triangles. Really weird.
I’m really not quite sure how to use this app and can’t seem to find a proper tutorial on it.
Increase the duplicate radius setting until it stops. Small ships can mostly get away with a radius of 0.1 (more refined sur) whilst big ships/objects may need a very high radius to to prevent those duplicates being generated. I’ve had to go as high as 50 with some large objects.
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adoxa wrote:
Tried Quarks mod. Crashed reasonably quickly (the last packet sent was FLPACKET_SERVER_DAMAGEOBJECT, with different parameters to all other such packets). Applied my two plugins, which caught two more (another damage object; the other one’s time didn’t correspond exactly, but FLPACKET_SERVER_DESTROYOBJECT was likely), but none after another hour. Restarted, but still none after more than an hour. Restarted, and still none after almost an hour. So StarTrader, don’t bother running Packets; GetCollisions probably isn’t worth it, either; GetRoot will prevent the crash, though. Once I finish off tweaks to Console, I’ll get to work on the MilkShape sur exporter.adoxa - Well I got 3 crash logs, the common factor is use object 50 to the DevilRay, which is where the NPC’s Countermeasure Dropper is mounted - indicating a missile is onto him.
I am wondering that the NPC is hit by the missile and then that hit collision calc is going wrong? I attach the 3 crash logs below anyway, hope it will give you something to get us on the track.
I shortened the GetCollision-bad-2.txt in the middle to fit it into the 1MB limit but all of the other files are complete. Thanks adoxa
Sushi - if your test ships are not being chased by missiles this might also explain why your tests aren’t failing.
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in the early days i did hitboxes, i have noticed that if you fire a missile who is (the launcher) into the boxes you have a crash
npc or not doesn’t change anything
maybe an interaction between the hitboxes of the ship and the missile ?
have you tried to put the hardpoint a little outside the thibox ?this is probably not the problem but it’s not the time it takes to test
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Hi Mirkha.
Do you mean when a missile launcher is inside the hitbox (the hitbox is bigger than the ship or above the ship surface)?
I understand that would be a problem.
But in this case the problem is with a small fighter sur, and we are trying to isolate if the FL Server crash is happening because of a missile hitting the fighter.
Quarks wrote:
If you are interested, this is the mod I was using, Junkers and Hogosha using the bad ships and fighting in front of Manhattan.Quarks, this fits - your DevilRay loadout included missiles! Perhaps Sushi’s loadout did not have missiles. I’ll go isolate!
The base ship has a lot of cannons and these are destroying most of the test fighters.
I will replace all of the cannons with missile launchers, to see if I can aggravate the problem. Then I will replace all missile launchers with cannons, to try to isolate it to missile hit detections as the cause.
If it is, we then have to understand what part of a sur is needed to detect missile hits correctly. I have a feeling this is the purpose of the Type 5 sur parts but I do not understand how to make those fully yet.
Maybe together we can work it out, I am farily good at inventing ways to isolate problems, with help from LS and adoxa and some others to test maybe we can crack it.
Then when it is solved and we can produce good surs, I can drop FL altogether, install Linux on my laptop and PC, and go chew carrots full time.
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Do you mean when a missile launcher is inside the hitbox (the hitbox is bigger than the ship or above the ship surface)?
inside the hitbox
i don’t have made more tests on that because i put the hitbox as near as possible from the hull, so … the hardpoint is well placed, especially for a small shipi really think about an interaction between the missile’s hitbox and the ship’s hitbox
oh … and for the carrots …
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StarTrader wrote:
adoxa - Well I got 3 crash logs, the common factor is use object 50 to the DevilRay, which is where the NPC’s Countermeasure Dropper is mounted - indicating a missile is onto him.
Adoxa - Sorry, that was incorrect, hpid 50 is the shield batteries.
But you got your own results anyway.
In the meantime, I changed the missiles to cannons and it still crashed.
I will go through the rest of the isolation anyway in case it gives us any more.
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I replaced all weapons with missiles, no crash in 2 hours.
Cannons crash FLServer, missiles don’t - but I will try to test for longer too.
Does anyone know what is the difference between missile collision testing and cannonfire collision testing as far as surs go?
Merry Christmas everyone.
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first difference i’d start with is that missiles or any projectiles with DA_archetype’s do have a geometry and are no simple particles. vanilla missile models do also have a fitting sur file while effect based projectiles have none. surs as we know are entirely called server-side while vmeshes and effects are clientside.
