[Freelancer Mod News]Jason's Freelancer Patch

Without offense, I know that this post might look aggressive, but: Gibbon, Lancer Solurus, you are RPlers, aren’t you?
I and Outcast are pvp dudes, so we can tell much more about the advantages in pvp, can’t we?
(We simple have more pvp experience which tells us how strong vert strafing really is)

I won’t have a problem if you add it to your mod (and even less if you have another FL version), because people normally stay with their mod at the server created for it.
It IS a huge impact on pvp, I was able to gun down dudes I would have lost normally quite easily.
It can be very imba.

Players who don’t use it can’t use the counter axe either, so they can’t navigate against the other player moves.

PLUS, don’t forget W0dk4’s posting about makro users. (THIS! is very imba…mom I search the video we Imperiums recorded once…

http://rs205.rapidshare.com/files/122896143/makro_user.rar

Especially watch for ~32-End of the first video)

Just download the movie and watch, normally even one of us dudes would be necessary to take this player down, but with stupid makro (or not) he was just evading like hell while it was VERY DIFFICULT to even hit him, also if we were just a few meters away from him.
Topic:
http://freelancerserver.de/v2/viewtopic.php?t=15937&highlight=makro+user+vale
Well…you could make the patch as a FLMOD file
If the game version would change after activation of such a “feature” so the user won’t be able to conncect to any FL serversI won’t have a problem at all I guess

Some players and admins simple don’t want the feature at their servers, and even less integrated into their mod. Not to count the modless servers.

I mean…for me it sounds a bit like: Oh, let’s increase the cruise speed for SP. Oh, it is nice, I have integrated this feature into my mod and into many others. It is also aviable as a other single mod.
So integrate it into your mod or stop crying.

(Please…the text above is diffinitivly not meant as a personal attack, just how it does seems to me. Just because YOU like the feature it doesn’t give you the right to decide it for others, or does it? So better let every server community decide by itself if they want to have such a server feature or not. )

And you also don’t want to hear the voices of those who say that it HAS a huge impact on pvp. But those are who will feel this impact the VERY MOST.

Add a warning to your patch: “The extend controls feature of this mod might be considered cheating on some servers”

Removing the feature won’t stop cheaters using it.

adoxa wrote:
Besides, I think it’s still possible to add the keys directly to UserKeyMap.ini, so it doesn’t matter if the controls are present in Options or not. I guess I could add an optional patch to jflp.dll to prevent reading the keys. I believe anticheat utilities can then detect a modified jflp.dll/dacom.ini?

You are right. This might be the only way to prevent the use of 4 strafe. But I don’t know how many servers are using a clientside anticheat… without it this solution is useless

**No offense taken at all. Im actually surprised at the coverage this is getting. Especially since left-right strafing comes in the default FL installation. The keys are already set up. Also, I do alot of PvP and I use it then as well. The difference is that I have it adjusted per ship class, bigger is slower.

The macro program could be a big pain but without anti-cheat that detects such usage, you can’t stop it. Posting rules will only work for those who follow them….

Hehe, no, I’m not saying to add it if you don’t want it on your server, I was providing a solution to the problem. For vanilla servers, unfortunately it will always be a problem unless some type of hook is added or anti-cheat is added to that server. For me that isn’t a problem since all of my ships have already been adjusted to a low value.**

I would like to add that, if you’re using this patch on your server or, have it incorporated into your mod, that’s fine with me and I have no problems with it. However, there are many servers out there that don’t and many of them have specific rules concerning the use of added mods on their servers. If caught, you’re banned, it’s as simple as that.

I think it may be a great disadvantage (for many for the wrong reasons) for this patch to be available to all who come here and read this and download for the simple fact that, they will proceed to use it on any server they wish to join, causing problems and therefore getting themselves banned.

In the very beginning of this subject, it should have been moved to the Private Section, for Admins & Server Ops to discuss because that’s all I see reviewing it here. Naturally, others that don’t run servers will be reading this and many have more than likely, downloaded it by now.

I had, a few days ago thought about joining your serve Solurus but now, that I know it’s being used there, I have declined. Why, simply because I consider myself a PvPer and am good at it. If I were to have joined your server and not known of this patch being used, I would have more or less been treated like a n00b for not being able to figure out as to why I would be getting killed so easily and not able to hit my target.

I have been to many forums (many of them over the past couple of days looking for this subject) and am registered on them and I have not read on any of them that this patch is being used so, I think that all that use it in their mods or on their servers, if not mentioned in the read-me, you should make it as a notice in your Server News to inform those who have not been there to know what’s going on and that you may need to dl this patch in order to have a fair advantage against all that do use it on your server.

Like Bas said, it’s not up to you, (not pointing at you personally) to decide who uses this program on any server. It’s up to the operators of the server to decide and most of all, the mod creator.

This is an issue or post that should not have been viewed in public and should have been moved to where all Admins have their say and can decide from there as to how this should be viewed and or available for usage. Not the Creator, or the General Public.

Nothing against you adoxa or your ability to create this sort of programming but, you should have used better judgment before posting this subject in the general Forums.

It may not be of any good now but, I still think it should be moved. The download be moved into the Private Section in order for Admins to decide if they want others to use it and provide the link to it from their forums or add it to their mods as they build.

We’re trying to gain players to keep Freelancer alive, not ban players for using a patch that many may decide is a cheat and runs players away because of it.

If a player is using this patch and were to decide to jump on my server to check it out and was caught using this type of patch there, especially if he’s not registered, without my knowing about it or allowing it, that player would be banned instantly and that’s not what I want or enjoy doing.

JMHO is all.

**@ HunterKiller - sorry you don’t want to join, the strafing is pretty useless in PvP, it only helps if they are more than 5k from you. Once you are in normal PvP range (less than 3k) the weapons hits are very hard to avoid. I have rebuilt the scripts multiple times to make sure this is the case and finally ended up writing a ship scripter and rescripted every ship. Once I did that the PvP advantage of the strafing was killed off…

Anyways, hope it all gets worked out, most of the largest mods already have this so it won’t make a difference on those. The vanilla mods are a different story though.**

Add a warning to your patch: “The extend controls feature of this mod might be considered cheating on some servers”

I think this is the best solution to the “problem”.
Anyways, I dont really get what the big issue is.
We have not really complained about small optional mods that alter pvp gameplay in the past, so why do you do that now?
Cheaters always get their cheats (as silly as that sounds), but the more ppl know about the “cheats”, the more likely are anticheats and attention on the players side to catch those cheaters.

So I think its BS to discuss these type of things in private or to force adoxa to remove 4-way strafing in his patch.

Changed the download’s description.

I think this settles the issue for everyone nicely, thanks adoxa.

Thankx Adoxa 8-)

Will have to watch for that sticky bug Lancer mentioned… but its always great to have new tech to play with in XLR… I’ve had vertical strafing for a long time now I see it as a needed fix… and should never have been kulled from the original game… but each to their own i suppose, hehe.

w0dk4 wrote:

So I think its BS to discuss these type of things in private or to force adoxa to remove 4-way strafing in his patch.

No-one that I can see was asking him to remove it. It was only to express that many servers don’t allow added patches to their mods or server. Just like the Speed mod, if caught using it, players get banned.

The warning is a good idea and was something that should have been thought of in the first place. At least be real about it. I’m sure of I were to jump on your server with something you didn’t allow , I would be banned, I’ve seen your ban list and many others around the Freelancer Community.

As a Server Op and Owner, I think you can understand my reasons. If I were to download a patch that I believed was innocent to be used everywhere and jumped on a server that didn’t allow it and got banned for using it, I wouldn’t understand because I can use it everywhere else and get away with it.

With a warning attached, it gives the user an option to decide if whether or not it’s allowed to be used on that server. If he uses it anyway and gets banned, that’s on him and not the server.

It’s all good and no-one here was wanting anything removed as it may be beneficial for some servers.

HK

I haven’t tried it yet, but it sounds interesting. There had been some consideration between M0tah and I to write an INI-configurable stat-extender for Flak, but no work has been done on it yet. I’ll try this out and post my thoughts.

@Wodka: Simple human reaction. They weren’t such public, weren’t they? I don’t mean the possibility to downlaod them, but creating an own thread for the mod makes more publicity. Also not to mention that users tend to rather reply on threads than creating their own one, and, that T SP is mainly a place for modders, and many of those players who visit T SP are from modded servers, aren’t they?

I personally even think that it is good that it got handled in public, 1.) Other ppl might now read about the risks and the reasons behind them, 2.) What if Outcast and #NosFi won’t have been server admins? Would the topic than even been discussed? It is nice that it has been, so….

This is weird, what’s with this fuss about 4 way strafing…I’ve figured out the thing last year I think, and it improves my gaming big time. I’f youre a good pilot you can use it to your advantage even in a fight. You have the freedom to be unpredictable in battle. I’ve been modding at this game since lancersreactor began and I’m tellin’ ya…this is a big improvement.All self respecting servers should have this.I mean cmon, you’r flying a space ship not a f*in plane, if you know how to ini code the physics of the ships this game has more potential than a few very recent titles. To me I think this game could use a shader support module for the engine and a solution to the max distance from center point of the systems so that scaling solar systems to more realistic sizes would not pose such a problem. I just got a new i7 6gigs o’ram bla bla pc and I still think Freelancer is THE game. Anything to improve the physics of the game just makes the thing more realistic, and that’s good in my book.

Whatever the circumstances, there’s no use arguing about it. I’m surprised there’s this much reaction to vertical strafing, considering it’s been something that’s been in use for years (anyone remember the Roll Baby Roll mod? That’s like 2003 there). Also, with vertical strafe, you can’t strafe in two directions at once (unless that’s something the client DLL in this mod fixed).

It’s sad to see arguments like this deface a mod release topic; come on, guys. We can do better than this.

fox is right: the argument is done, adoxa has introduced a warning and vertical strafing has been available for a long time. Let’s stop now please.

@adoxa

You asked earlier if incorporating the new stats into an existing mod work and wanted some feedback.

Well…. i’ve tried to add it, so far without success. Bear in mind i suspect the issue is 99% to do with me and not your code lol as for some reason it takes me longer these days to get my head around new concepts. It took me a week to figure out the navmap naming solution you came up with which i love now.

So, i was wondering if it’s not all ini related, if getting those stats to appear is coded into one of the dll’s and which one. Problem i have is i’ve modified almost everything in my mod and i’d need to know if it is in one of the dll’s so i can try to figure out how to get it working. If it’s in your custom jflp.dll then i don’t understand yet what i’ve done wrong but any insights from yourself would be appreciated

@ Gibbon

All i grabed was the new jflp.dll & the key .ini’s from the actual patch…
Works fine in XLR… and she’s a beast of a mod compared to others (i’ve been bored… for a few years)… a few missing IDS references, but i was expecting that as i tryed extending the controls out years ago (dev commands… yeah that hurt finding out they dont exist hehe)

@ Adoxa… Fine work… Im playing with things now i gave up on years ago…

Dam fine work!

great work, any chance of having automatically generated ids_info + ids_info3 in shiparch.ini?