Moralic imput required. Please read.

the massive difference between mod downloads and online players
and from moddb

It’s obvious that on 98% which is actually 99.999% of all MP servers, only want you to use their mods for their server and not any other mods at all. Just like something as simple as the Speed Mod is enough to get a player banned, what makes you thin g that nothing else will? It’s crazy to think otherwise, Bas. Nothing against you or your ability. It’s just common sense.

Whatever players wish to use for SP is entirely up to them. Why pursue offering something that only continues to prolong the negative when it’s not necessary?

What I keep seeing here is one Topics stops, then another begins and it’s still along the same subject, cheats. Anything that alters an MP server that is not yours alone is considered a cheat providing it’s not being use in SP.

I don’t really see what addon you are talking about, guys But if it’s about that one (link) - it’s not a cheat (besides maybe visible tizona fx). Cheat is unfair advantage in economics or battle, while those are just convenient or nice features.
Seriously, HD textures or chatlogging aren’t cheats

HunterKiller wrote:
It’s obvious that on 98% which is actually 99.999% of all MP servers, only want you to use their mods for their server and not any other mods at all.

Well, i hosted Radiant’s HD textures on my server as optional mod for people to use. Because it doesn’t give any advantage besides very eye-pleasuring planets and asteroids, etc
While i won’t allow using speedmod because it will give one player advantage (trading mostly) - that’s a cheat.

Bas wrote:
Eh that’s the modification/addon.

GLS workaround & maybe client-side chatlogging

Yep, those are using hooks, and that’s where conflicts could be when you try to use it with other mod that uses hooking.

just because on your server it is not considered a cheat the other servers out there dont have to think in the same way

a graphic mod (HD textures) being used on my new mod would not only change the textures… it would change much more… that alone is not permitted

and what if that graphic mod causes a crc conflict on the materials? -> unidentified crash for the players using those mods and the admins and modders are getting blamed for bugs while they are unable to fix anything since their own work is free of errors

HunterKiller wrote:
What I keep seeing here is one Topics stops, then another begins and it’s still along the same subject, cheats. Anything that alters an MP server that is not yours alone is considered a cheat providing it’s not being use in SP.

What does it alter on the server exactly? :-?

actually nothing… it was just the wrong choice of words
“the client gets changed with having effects on the server” fits better to what hk wanted to express

[d]I’m just a little curious… What exactly is the issue here? That some server admins might not want any client-side changes of any sort (graphics etc.) being used on their server? If that’s the case, they need to explicitly state this in their rules.[/d]

Edit: Nevermind, totally missed the first page of this thread. That explains things a little.

@OP: Material CRC conflicts create odd looking textures, not crashes. I don’t see what a HD texture patch could mess up.

i had crashes due to material crc error already and i remember that LS mentioned something similar aswell
and there are more possible risk as you can not simply just change the texture… you have to change the entire mat which is in many cases not that original anymore and probably has different references to other files

here i can only speak from what i know of my own mod and there are more than 20 cases this might cause problems because FL would suddenly be missing secondary textures (overlays)
Im not sure if that would lead to a crash but i am sure that this would cause error logs.

I have to agree with OPR8R here. While for vanilla and vanilla-esque servers such as FLU, this mod is certainly okay. It gets very dicey when you start to talk about modding effects for already existing mods.

Some mods may not be affected by them at all. These are typically the mods in which the graphics are not modded in the first place.

However, once you start to get into heavily graphically modified mods, it gets troublesome. Using my own Itano Circus as an example, if you tried to apply a generic effects patch to it, chances are the majority of it simply wouldn’t work. Once you start talking about modified textures, it gets very complicated. In Itano Circus’s case, it is possible to entirely break some effects. From what I have seen, Crossfire is similar in that it extensively modifies nearly all aspects of the game graphically. With such heavy effects/graphics modding, any graphics patch will likely break down the mod.

In an ideal world, there could be a list of compatible mods. Maybe with each server owner deciding whether or not the mod is “approved.” However in reality it is best to simply use your own judgement.

If a mod contains minimal to no editing of graphics related items, then it is ok to use with the mod. If a mod modifies the graphics of FL, then it is generally not a good idea to use Bas’ graphics mod.

If you want to avoid trouble, just tell them to
ASK BEFORE
they use your baby on any server.

F!R wrote:
If you want to avoid trouble, just tell them to
ASK BEFORE
they use your baby on any server.

Agree.

You make something good, awesome. Is it your responsibility as to whether they then use it on servers that don’t want them to? No!

You include a note that they should ask before using it on a server, that’s all you should have to do imo!

I know you’re asking whether they would allow it, and how you could alter or provision so that it identifies which server - but you shouldn’t have to do that

Then again, I take a rather simplistic view of most things

Already got most of this stuff integrated… so Its a no from me as there’s no use patching an already “fixed” mod 8-)

If i was a SP vanilla server owner though… I would see no harm in its use as it alters visuals mainly… with no game changes apart from making FL look Pretty… but for “mod” mods… hell no!.. that’s just heading for trouble & countless crashes from “unkown” or unfamiliar assets.

After looking at the page & info though… I’m interested in having another look when its released fully, good work Bas & good idea

My thought on this is. Most wish to limit what is on a client for several clear intertwined reasons.

[olist]* To Avoid Conflicts and Problems in the Game Code.

• To Keep all Players on a Level and Equal Playing Field.
• To Avoid Discussions and Disputes among players.
  [/olist]

Truth is I have seen even a “Visual” improvement argued as an advantage in gaming. And if you honestly consider seeing a Target easier than your opponent as what it is, you will as well.

And I am reminded of way back in the “Stone Age” of computing playing a TxT based Real Time MOG with ANSI Graphics. The “Hated Evil” Cheat at that time was a “Keyboard Macro Utility”