Brrr and wut wit TLR?

I really feel everyone just needs one big Hug….

Hug

Now Group Hug…

How dare you act in such an insulting way?!

You DON’T hug wolfs, thats just wrong.

Sigh
so it doesnt matter if I am here or not, the bashing keeps going on
well ok, keep showing your real face then

after letting this issue drop for 2 days and being told that nothing has changed at all i came to some pretty simple conclusions

1. you said that everything FF and w0dk4 have done wrong in the past does not matter (no matter how much damage it caused)… ok
this statement is followed how many sites of bashing going into my direction?
How comes that the statement “past is past” does only apply to them? I mean you refer this right to yourself while you dont grant it to others and keep bashing them?
Based on “the past is past” everyone is free of guilt… you, me, mental, azza…
2. based on that i came here to let the past drop… i came here to make an offer… i clearly ignored my personal feelings towards certain people when i wrote my very first post on this thread. I was willing to lay down all grudges (and i meanwhile have repeated it 2 times) to make an offer to TSP. My first post infact did not contain a demand nor any hostile comments.
The offer i was going to make is exactly the same offer that the others got and those also were not faced by demands or anything like that. Furthermore it is to be said that i asked for permission to link back to features hosted by the other communities.
3. the very first demand was coming from w0dk4 telling me that I have to place a link to TSP on my sites and the blame that i am not hosting the TSP community bar
4. sticking with the links i have stated that i might consider to establish a policy at TLR not to link to a site that is bashing TLR members. You keep blaming me for such a statement but in the end it is the response to your behaviour. If you want this policy being lifted then why dont you stop bashing others?
5. you seem to have fun posting links to old threads where i did argue with others over issues that actually are not your problem. Here I would like to point you back to 1. where “past is past”.
Furthermore id like to point out that i easily could point ppl to at least the same amount of threads where you did the same. The fact that I have not done that here actually was meant to show a good will.
6. the offer i was going to make towards TSP showed my good will to resolve the issues between the communities aswell (until a certain point where ppl suggested i would side with hackers), actually doing so was already the first step which was clearly turned down in this thread
7. the FL archives will return to TLR and after this long debate this is my only demand.
7.1. The old TLR database will be hosted at TLR as it is clearly TLR property.
The ownership was handed over from BP to mental, from him to azza and now to me. I have started to integrate the old TLR database backups right into the new TLR site where it belongs.
7.2. I dont want to be unfair… none of the data will be changed or deleted… and you have the free right to access that data at TLR. There will be no restrictions.
7.3. I also grant you the right to keep a copy/backup of that database that you can upload again IF TLR has to shut down for any possible reason
7.4. I want that the current FL archives are removed from hosting
7.5. I am not making any demands to hand over the converted database to me (this is not needed)
7.6. as legit owner of lancersreactor (since yesterday) aswell as old and new administrator of that site can make it happen by law
of course it is not my intention to force this demand in such a way so
7.7. as alternative option here is my suggestion:
you believe that you have the right to host the TLR database (TLR property that you never had the right or permission to host) because worfey was able to convert and include it into a new forum (that was a previous statement of this thread).
So how about if i crawl TSP (should not take long) and host the TSP database, all the threads, posts and members at TLR. I am of course allowed to do that because i have the ability. You took the old TLR and in exchange I take the current TSP. Sounds fair to me.
Cause and reaction… remember this principle?
8. i suggest you finally stop telling around that azza and i would side to cause damage to others. In fact Azza is not TLR owner anymore, he does not belong to the TLR staff aswell as he does not belong to the SWAT Portal. There are no connections between me and him and he is as much member of TSP as he is on TLR. So if you believe that he is hacking your servers then you should be aware that he is a TSP member and that your problems with him are not my problems (and i say that because it is the same answer i once got from you).

Do you really want to keep this going on or is there at least the chance to resolve the issues?
Clearly this is the very last time that I reach my hand to prevent further troubles. If you want let the past go then you should be willing to let things finally drop. I am willing to do the same.

Excuse me now, I have a few communities to run. U know… helping players… getting old players back… getting new players to join… talking to server admins and such stuff.
Ill check back in a few days to see if the bashing keeps going on.

I understand that you “reaching out” to us means that you allow us to take down the TLR archives before you take legal action.
How noble.

We’ll think about it.

I thought the archieves “belonged” to lancersreactor.com? Or am I just remembering the adress wrong?

Isn’t the info actually intellectual property of those who wrote it?

I’m not into all that legal stuff, so I’m just asking a question here… More of those may come later.

w0dk4 wrote:
I understand that you “reaching out” to us means that you allow us to take down the TLR archives before you take legal action.
How noble.

That’s pretty much what I had left once I ran the post through my bs filter.

An incredible offer for sure, definately for the good of the wider freelancer community, definately of no benefit whatsoever to OP.

I think I’m finally beginning to realise that OP’s actually an extremely generous person, completely selfless in all respects, a model citizen, saviour of freelancer! Yes, it’s clear to me now, the starport is evil, but look, over there in the distance, a shining beacon of light, thank the maker! It’s OP, guardian of the holy lancers reactor archives and he’s brought a tube of superglue to seal the great community divide. And they all lived happily ever after…. until that bloody wAzza showed up with his malicious botnet army and destroyed the holy archives. That’s right, the only story that has a happy ending is one that has not ended yet.

Oh, so now coming in and immediately antagonizing TSP, making it seem like it’s either “the FL community” or “Starport” as if Starport would not tolerate the other communities AND as if it wasn’t part of the community, is actually leaving the past behind and making an offer?

Wow, OP, just wow. You can’t help it, can you? I think any kind of collaboration with you is out of the question. Too many threats against this site, too much slandering. There’s a limit to everything. I’ll happily deal with those 3 or 4 communities directly, but I don’t need your bullshitting filter applied to whatever I say should I let you act as an intermediary.

You are the owner of lancersreactor.org. This is, legally, not the same company. You have absolutely no more right on the archives than we do. No contract was signed. The information was available to all and is actually the property of the posters.

If you want to play dirty, OP, and threaten us to take legal action, you’ll notice that you don’t have as much leverage as you think you do. You said you would not, but simply mentioning it is already way too much. Don’t you think we have enough to deal with with the constant ddos we’re getting from your new friend?

Take the current TSP if you will, static pages aren’t worth much, and most people would rather deal with real people (ie those who visit the forums, those who created those posts you seem to value so much) than browsing through threads and threads of information, most of which is a repeat of the repeat. You seem to have forgotten what makes a community, OP. Your actions definitely don’t speak of a person willing to put the past behind them.

Oh and, I’d really love to know what I or w0dk4 did wrong in the past. That should be interesting.

I had to resist the O RLY? owl for the first demand…

A few observations:

1. w0dk4 clearly made a suggestion, not a demand - and you keep asking people not to twist your words? :roll:

2. Please provide a list of TLR members being bashed :roll:
   (if the list is just you, the bashing is clearly independent of TLR, so your policy in this is null and void)

3. Your offer?

OPR8R wrote:
So here is my suggestion:
Those ppl which have a problem that we build up lancersreactor again should stay away from that site and such discussions once any forever, since TLR obviously is not your business anymore.
All others… the people which want to support us… the people which are actually interested in the Freelancer community instead of only being interested in TSP… these people clearly free to be part of our “community project” and can of course benefit from it.

You mean your suggestion? :roll:

4. You legally own the database? (the domain name is irrelevant, but you keep talking about TLR as if it means something!)

Honestly, had you got TLR up and running perfectly - then I wouldn’t have been surprised if the archives had disappeared.

Instead, you’ve the diplomacy of an Aardvark :roll:

i agree, this suggestion is less a suggestion than an insult… you give us the choice of either dislike you (which is in fact not to set in any connection with your work or TLR in general) or to support the community that is not progressing anymore which in your words meaning being interested in the common mission.
no, i don’t think, TLR is the core of FL anymore and that our admins do not agree with you is definately not because they dislike your doings we all benefit from. you don’t have to tell us again and again, that without you the community could have died a long time ago. we thank you for what you did but thats it. you can expect that we do our jobs, you can expect kudos but i can’t think there is anything more you can really get.

you are important but you are not the sun we all should be running around. we thank you. but that’s your paynment, there isn’t anything else we can do. and not everyone, who doesn’t help you is automatically working against. not every non-friend is an enemy.

Is that archive not free information and therefore not under ownership of anyone but the authors of the posts themselves?

That should be the case, normally. Maybe TLR made you relinquish your ownership when you posted, though, I don’t recall the exact terms of the agreement.

I doubt so, that’d make them responsible for the contents of the post.

Isnt the owner of a domain the owner of the content? I mean nearly no one is posting stuff that is legally his own property in relation to copyright (only a few exceptions - where normal post like all the within here posted are not). Because only if its copyrighted you can demand removal because its your property and you can deny a third party the usage.

Due to this reason site owners are responsible - more or less about what is posted in their forums and have to correct posts if its against any (national or international) regulation.

Holding more than one copy of sensitive data for me is more a question of data privacy. But in ages of Facebook and all the social networks this word became obsolete anyway. Good that there are regulations that nearly no one is obeying^^ And that no one is complaining means not its legit

Nevertheless it seems a cooperation wont be possible under all the prejudices and intolerant behaviour of both or more parties. Actually i am asking myself what is everyone fearing? Is there something sensitive to hide?

If a cooperation means that we should acknowledge OP’s propaganda then no, it wont be possible.

I know there are communities that just silently ignore it, but the day we can no longer call OP out on the BS he talks, I will quit.

w0dk4 wrote:
If a cooperation means that we should acknowledge OP’s propaganda then no, it wont be possible.

I know there are communities that just silently ignore it, but the day we can no longer call OP out on the BS he talks, I will quit.

+1

is cooperation not a bit more than just to acknowledge the opposite propaganda talking?

I see that this wont bring anything any further - than asked different. What requirements needs to be fullfilled to at least think about getting closer (in relation to cooperation) instead of increasing the distance?

I am just curious if dropping the past issues and problems does not mean dropping and eventually make a “new” start. I mean if its not really tried than no one ever will know. Kinda looks for me like approaches from the middle ages

Huor wrote:
Isnt the owner of a domain the owner of the content?

Ironically that’d mean GoDaddy is the current owner then (lancersreactor.com).

However, a domain name does nothing more than link an easily readable and memorable name to an ip address - something that is very easy to change.

It has zero other function (afaik). E.g. I could point my own domain name to youtube.com - but this doesn’t make me a co-owner of the content, or entitled to a slice of the advertising revenue (dammit!).

Now who owned the data may actually be whom was controlling the domain name (if it is “ownable” as pointed out - I doubt anyone can claim ownership of my contributions for example…), but this thing has been through so many hands (talking about db content) that if it could be owned, it’d still be a chore.

I’m sure “proving” ownership really wouldn’t be as easy as saying “I got it off x who got it off y who got it off j, so this means I have absolute authority and exclusive ownership”. For instance, j may have also given it to k before x ever received it. Does this now mean k is actually the owner (especially if the domain name is irrelevant ) as they’ve had this data longer, or first? (honestly, not a clue now!).

It’s an interesting topic, but you’d need some savvy (internet) law types for it. Bluffing or blustering about the topic by saying “lawyer” and “legal” is pointless.

As for issues with working together - I don’t have any, I only dig at Op when he starts going off on stuff like in this thread. As I said, I wish him good luck and would love to see TLR back to what it was.

Would I help him seeing as I want it that way?
No.
Why?

I don’t think I’ve heard Op ever give acknowledgement of anyone else’s efforts or achievements. I only ever seem to read “I, I, I, Me, Me, Me” (this is not necessarily accurate, but all I remember reading now) - especially when it comes to anything FL “community” related. You’d be forgiven for thinking he was the only person around, responsible for everything that currently exists… exclusively through his own mouth.
Yes he has contributions, but there is a plethora of people he ignores as having sizeable, equal, or even bigger contributions.

Furthermore, when there is clear cut proof (his own claims in his own post being contradicted by his earlier posts) about something being wrong - he doesn’t admit, accept, or apologise for misleading… he instead attacks by saying “oh I could find your posts…”.
Now that was important because it isn’t interpretation, it isn’t twisting words - it is very clearly himself vs himself.

With his claim he could do it to others I would say - “get on with it, at least I’m confident they’re man enough to own up, and apologise”. Of course, if it is only on this site the claim is made, only apologise here. Op, however, went around all over the place posting about how he warned everyone about the global server… so that’d be quite an embarrassing task to apologise to so many locations…

I’m here, like history, someone he can’t BS over when it comes to Freelancer, and someone who won’t let “others” be forgotten.
If I do not directly know, I know folks who do

Maybe you should offer him the sacred archive, it might throw him completely off ballance, he could get so enraged by the fact that you actually gave into his demands for the sacred archive without a bloodbath that he would then demand that you take the sacred archive back just so he can have another fight with you, or else face another lawsuit over the refusal to take back the sacred archive.

He doesn’t want the archive. He already has it.

What he wants is for us to take ours down. Which I will never cave in to because he simply has no right to demand this. It’s even more ridiculous that he passes this as a “suggestion” or, heavens, an “offer”.

You shouldn’t take much of what I say too seriously, I’m justing taking the p i s s. I’m half crazy at the best of times, right now I’ve got this picture in my head of OP as Golem and the archives are his precious, the starport and lancers are the two towers. By this time tomorrow I’ll have worked out who the king is and I’ll be on to something else. Gotta find some humour in amongst all this drama.