[Sur Tutorial] Hitbox from 3DSMAX to Freelancer

Mirkha

pdf : good idea, i’ll make it this week

i don’t rename the ships groups because i rename the dummy object and when i export the cmp each cmp group have the dummy object name.
at the end we need to rename only the group1.

CzW, Mirkha -
Can you please tell me if doing it this way instead of making the extra spheres will cause any problems?

i don’t know. i use the truesilver method to export so i don’t have made test without the spheres.

One more suggestion - the Havok tools for 3DSMAX enable convex hull parts to be created quickly from the ship groups, and these can be used as they are (or you can now put in your hollow bits) as the collision box parts - do you have any bad experience in making surs with these tools?

not yet tested but … my processor is an AMD. and it’s a intel tools…
in my to do list and i give you feedback.
but what i know is if you use other tool than the Standard primitive, your sur will be good BUT the suns flare throught your model …

for example with spline tools :

without :

Many thanks again for this tutorial. The revelation for me is 3DSMAX. I did use it before but must have changed the sur parts in MilkShape somehow, probably by using Face - Smooth All, which changes the orientation of the normals I believe?

yes. you must not change the hitbox made in 3dsmax with milkshape.
and in my opinion : why do this ?
3dsmax is more powerfull to make changes on your shapes ;).

Please ignore whatever negative comments, you have proven that it works.

as usual. you know, i’m admin of a french communauty
the french guys sometimes are … grouser ^^
not problem for who thinks that this technique is not good :).
each is free to use or not ^^ each is free to think what he wants and it’s good like this
anyway, it’s just another way and i’m sure other people can do great work without this technique.

Forsaken

Good Tutorial Mirkha! This is good for the 3dsMAX users and those more comfortable with its easy to use interface.

For those looking to make SUR’s without use of SUR Splicing (i.e. ships without multiple components), please check this tutorial I posted… http://the-starport.net/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=1002.msg7934#msg7934

You can decide which suits your needs.

cheeseontoast

Would i be possible that this could be submitted into the Tutorial Archives? The tutorial section was made for a reason

http://the-starport.net/index.php?option=com_ja_submit&Itemid=40

StarTrader

It’s getting lost down the list already, had trouble finding it today!

Can any moderator or admin move it or make it sticky for now?

Worfeh

@StarTrader:

It’s getting lost down the list already, had trouble finding it today!

Can any moderator or admin move it or make it sticky for now?

Its sticky for now.

StarTrader

I am having the problem of a large object disappearing when the centre is not in view.

Normally this was cured by using FL Model Tool, but that does not work in this case.

When I made a sur for it, the problem stopped.

I do not want to have a sur for this object.

Does anyone know what is causing this, or how it can be cured?

Forsaken

I dunno ST, but you could try this…

Keep the SUR that you made and use phantom_physics = true on it.

This should keep the functionality that you wish.

StarTrader

CzW, Mirkha…

As far as options go, select “Back To Front”, collision must be “Shrink Wrapped” and scale down set to “1”, mass on 100.

Once all good, click on OK; you will have a file bsl_S06.sur.

Doing this will bridge the gaps and hollows in the sur, as part of the shrink-wrap export. So all sur parts will be made convex automatically by the exporter.

So when you make a shape with a dock cut into it for example, I don’t understand how a ship will pass through as yet. I haven’t made one to check. Any comments please?

Also…

When we change the name of the root part in the cmp, we are replacing the ship root with the 1st sphere. Why exactly?

This will leave us one group short, remember we only made x-1 spheres, because the first is the root - i.e. the ship.

Could it be that this method is working precisely because we have removed the root group?

Thanks.

LancerSolurus

To cure the disappearing act, simply set the type to one of the stellar object types (planets, moons) and it should clear up the problem.

Mirkha

@StarTrader:

CzW, Mirkha…

As far as options go, select “Back To Front”, collision must be “Shrink Wrapped” and scale down set to “1”, mass on 100.

Once all good, click on OK; you will have a file bsl_S06.sur.

Doing this will bridge the gaps and hollows in the sur, as part of the shrink-wrap export. So all sur parts will be made convex automatically by the exporter.
So when you make a shape with a dock cut into it for example, I don’t understand how a ship will pass through as yet. I haven’t made one to check. Any comments please?

i don’t know exactly how the shrink-wrap works but i have made two dock with the bolean tool.
one example :

and the two work perfectly.

@StarTrader:

Also…

When we change the name of the root part in the cmp, we are replacing the ship root with the 1st sphere. Why exactly?
This will leave us one group short, remember we only made x-1 spheres, because the first is the root - i.e. the ship.
Could it be that this method is working precisely because we have removed the root group?

Thanks.

in fact with the v3 exporter, to make your cmp functional you don’t have to rename the first group.
but you have noticed that i don’t rename the cmp groups in milkshape before the export.
so i have one group called : Group1.
and you know each part of a cmp must have a unique name.
if not freelancer doesn’t considere them and doesn’t show the object ingame

and no, the first group is not a sphere. the firt group is the entire ship.
here you see that the first sphere is not made in milkshape

and here you see that the first group is the reunification of all cmp groups.

i hope that’s help you

StarTrader

Right, got it.

Well since you are naming the root group I think it’s not changing anything, is it? As long as the name of the 1st root group (in this case it should still be the ship or station groups) is in the root’s file name then all will be ok.

Can you post up the cmp’s UTF tree so we can see the group names please? That will clarify it.

And a screenshot of the model and its sur in HardCMP will show that it is convex or not, if you can try to angle it so we can see the sur wireframe.

Thanks.

All the best.

Mirkha

@StarTrader:

Right, got it.

Well since you are naming the root group I think it’s not changing anything, is it? As long as the name of the 1st root group (in this case it should still be the ship or station groups) is in the root’s file name then all will be ok.

Can you post up the cmp’s UTF tree so we can see the group names please? That will clarify it.

And a screenshot of the model and its sur in HardCMP will show that it is convex or not, if you can try to angle it so we can see the sur wireframe.

Thanks.

All the best.

by default when you import the cmp/3ds in milkshape, just before add the spheres, milkshape juste give Group1, Group2, Group3 ect … for the ship’s groups names.
so when you export, the exporter give to your cmp the “Group1_lod1.3db” name for the first group.
just like this.

not a problem, the cmp/sur are functional
but when you make another ships/bases, milkshape will do the same thing and give your cmp the “Group1_lod1.3db” name for the first group.
and when you put the two ships/bases in game you cannot see them because for freelancer two object have the same group name.

and this model have a docking part.
the root is in one part and it present a concavity

StarTrader

Thanks Mirkha. Yep the group rename is clear.

Well it looks like the cavity in the sur is most definitely there!

It’s very strange the exporter would do that in Shrink-Wrap, it’s supposed to bridge the vertices. Or did you export it with shield bubble and then strip off the shield bubble?

Unless it knows about Boolean?? The author of the exporter plugin has not been around to ask him, it would have clarified so many sur questions.

Mirkha

no bubble
never !! bubbles is the dark side !!!
hum … sorry i don’t have take my pills ;D

most seriously, only Shrink-Wrap.
and as you see on the video the boolean tools cut the face and make some others faces not to leave an open mesh.
i don’t know how but i just see it in 3dsmax.

the question is not that if the author of the exporter is here, but is anyone else can make an exporter pack for 3DSMAX ?
because all the game was made with 3DSMAX … and obviously it is possible … just need a C++ programmer with some free time … and a lot of bravery ;D

Buck Rogers

Hi all, great tutorial, thx to everyone who participated.

I’m having a small problem

I’ve made a base, it’s a Star Trek Starbase

Not yet complete and haven’t started skinning yet.

It’s made up of multiple surs and groups. I used the tutorial and it works a treat except for a couple of issues that I’m hoping someone may be to able advise me on.

The first is the solar radius. The distance to the object appears as 0K even when I’m still 2k away. I’ve played around with the radius in sur splice and it does reduce this range but I have to make so small 50 that the object is no longer selectable unless you are on top of it. The model is about 4000 high and 2000 in diameter at it’s largest point but if I use these values the it says 0 when I’m at the other side of the system, well almost, slight exageration.

Another issus is the sur for the top half of the main dome. I did this in 2 halves, the bottom and the top. The bottom works fine and the top works from the outside, including the boolean holes, but from the inside it seems to be a bit hit and miss, sometimes it works and sometimes i can pass through it.

I can only imagine that it is due to the complexity of the shape having internal and external detection as well as the docking holes.I used the ghost bubbles for all the parts.

Finally the sun’s glare shines through the object and I noticed this was mentioned earlier but i only used Standard Primitives and not Splines.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated?

Mirkha

radius is managed in the lodrange of the object in the solararch.ini
and maybe you need to hack you freelancer.exe

for great objet in our mod (2600 meters) i use lodranger = 40000 at least

and for the sun/bolean.

i have made a lot of tests the last week
and when i said a lot of tests … it’s an euphemism …
even when I make the boxes only with milkshape it’s still the same. only the root part is not transparent to the sun …
it’s just a freelancer limitation.

no difference between splines and shapes for the sun : a good new and a bad one in the same time.
a good because you can do better sur and more easily with splines.
a bad one because we need to fix the problem
i have already a method.
the only problem is the flare.

I have not yet tested with the file stararch.ini and particulary this settings :

[Texture]
file = fx\sun.txm
tex_shape = sunglow
tex_shape = glow2
tex_shape = glow2_ring
tex_shape = ice_halo
tex_shape = lenscircle
tex_shape = lenscircle2
tex_shape = hexagon
tex_shape = lensglow1
tex_shape = LensGlowSpike
tex_shape = stripe_narrow
tex_shape = stripe_flare
tex_shape = suncircle

but i have find another way.
you can add a particular field to your system.

just add a noflare.ini in the data\solar\asteroids folder
in this ini you need that :

[Band]
render_parts = 6
shape = asteroid_belt_04
height = 5000
offset_dist = 3000
fade = 1.000000, 1.350000, 15, 17
texture_aspect = 1.000000
color_shift = 1.000000, 1.000000, 1.000000
vert_increase = 2
ambient_intensity = 1.000000

[AsteroidBillboards]
count = 400
start_dist = 1000
fade_dist_percent = 0.350000
shape = mine_rock_tri
color_shift = 0.800000, 0.800000, 0.800000
ambient_intensity = 1.000000
size = 60, 120

and in your system ini file you must add this :

[Asteroids]
file = solar\asteroids\noflare.ini
zone = Zone_noflare

[Zone]
nickname = Zone_noflare
pos = 0, 0, 0
rotate = 0, 0, 0
shape = ELLIPSOID
size = 1000000, 1000000, 1000000
property_flags = 0
visit = 0
damage = 0
spacedust = 0
spacedust_maxparticles = 0
interference = 0.000000
sort = 20

and that fix the sun who pass throught the model …
i give you news as soon as possible for the stararch.ini ( i hope that’s work this way because it will be easier )

and for the boolean ^^
the method work good and i have made other tests
but you’re right, from outside you hit the box and from the inside not.
so 2 solutions :

add simple surface around the hole
or use the spline to draw the contours of the object, including hole
i will make a video today to show you

Buck Rogers

Thx Mirkha

This maybe bad practice but I use
Lod = 0, 999999 for all models

So the only downside to using Splines instead of Standard Primitives is the solar flare, but the surface hit detection works better.

StarTrader

Well, here are my findings…

I made a large sphere 200m diameter with a large boolean box removed from the front to the centre of the sphere, making a wide entrance dock in the sphere.

As usual the sphere was not visible in-game until I fitted an HpMount hardpoint.

It also disappeared from view when the centre is off-screen, until I made a sur for it. Resizing the model cmp itself and saving it with the new bounding box (radius) in FL Model Tool did not stop this.

The freshly-exported untouched sur crashed FL. Still crashed after using FL Model Tool to resize it x 1 as scenery then as ship/station again. Tried several times and ways, still same. This sur also has bridged the dock entrance with faces, which we knew the exporter does…

(How can I attach an image guys?)

Incidentally, FL Model Tool adds the HpMount shield bubble (0xF00FB9DE - “Unknown_Mesh_f00fb9de”) to the sur too when you make the type = ship/station! I found that out a couple of days ago.

Surprise though - after passing a freshly-exported sur (not the resized one) through sur-splicer, the bridging across the entrance is removed, and the dock roof, floor, backwall and sidewalls are properly shaped into the sphere!!

And this sur did not crash FL, I was able to launch and approach the sphere.

But - it’s not working as you described it in your tutorial, guys! You didn’t test extensively enough - tsk! tsk!

From outside the sphere my ship bounced off everywhere, but passed through when approaching the dock from the front and below the dock floor level. When inside, it bounces off the dock roof and back wall once but still passes through them. There is no collision with the floor or side walls.

I made an entry for the sphere in concave.ini - no change. I set the sphere as type = MISSION_SATELLITE, PLANET, FIGHTER in solararch.ini - same performance from the sur.

My guess is it is something to do with normals, Lancer mentioned that he spotted that the collision detection method uses normals. So somehow the sur exporter/sur-splicer is almost there but not putting all the info that’s needed into the sur file.

Sun flare is shining through the sphere.

I have some screenshots but can’t see a way to attach them, can anyone help how?

Anyhow, for a working sur for this type of problem we still need to make the sur in 5 parts - two part-spheres for the internal sidewalls, two pieces of sphere for the floor & ceiling, and one more for the backwall, all fitted together with sur-splicer.

My huge Romulan D’Deridex and many other large hollow-ship surs are made in this way and all of them work like a charm after sorting out some concavities here and there.

And the sun does not flare through the models. This may also be to do with normals.

It seems to be nearly there, it’s likely that the sur-splicer reverses some faces when it constructs the internal sur parts. If only we had someone to make us a new sur exporter plugin! (Hint! Hint!)

If someone can tell me how I’ll edit my post and attach some screenshots.

Buck Rogers

The screenies need to be hosted somewhere, i.e. photobucket or image shack and then a link to them is provided for posting them on a forum

I just put mine onto our web server and link them in "

StarTrader

Ah, thanks for the image info.

Your mat problem must be a name wrong somewhere - basic stuff to check is:-

mat filename correctly defined in solararch.ini for bases (or shiparch.ini for ships)?
internal materials names correct?
materials correctly assigned to model parts?
imported in DDS or TGA format only in mat file?
Node name (UTF Edit of mat file) should be MIP0 for TGA and MIPS for DDS? (When you click on a MIPS node you will see the contents in the data window will start with “DDS”).
export the materials from the mat file nodes using UTF Edit and check they are as you expect.

Hope one of these solves it.