[Sur Tutorial] Hitbox from 3DSMAX to Freelancer

Mirkha

radius is managed in the lodrange of the object in the solararch.ini
and maybe you need to hack you freelancer.exe

for great objet in our mod (2600 meters) i use lodranger = 40000 at least

and for the sun/bolean.

i have made a lot of tests the last week
and when i said a lot of tests … it’s an euphemism …
even when I make the boxes only with milkshape it’s still the same. only the root part is not transparent to the sun …
it’s just a freelancer limitation.

no difference between splines and shapes for the sun : a good new and a bad one in the same time.
a good because you can do better sur and more easily with splines.
a bad one because we need to fix the problem
i have already a method.
the only problem is the flare.

I have not yet tested with the file stararch.ini and particulary this settings :

[Texture]
file = fx\sun.txm
tex_shape = sunglow
tex_shape = glow2
tex_shape = glow2_ring
tex_shape = ice_halo
tex_shape = lenscircle
tex_shape = lenscircle2
tex_shape = hexagon
tex_shape = lensglow1
tex_shape = LensGlowSpike
tex_shape = stripe_narrow
tex_shape = stripe_flare
tex_shape = suncircle

but i have find another way.
you can add a particular field to your system.

just add a noflare.ini in the data\solar\asteroids folder
in this ini you need that :

[Band]
render_parts = 6
shape = asteroid_belt_04
height = 5000
offset_dist = 3000
fade = 1.000000, 1.350000, 15, 17
texture_aspect = 1.000000
color_shift = 1.000000, 1.000000, 1.000000
vert_increase = 2
ambient_intensity = 1.000000

[AsteroidBillboards]
count = 400
start_dist = 1000
fade_dist_percent = 0.350000
shape = mine_rock_tri
color_shift = 0.800000, 0.800000, 0.800000
ambient_intensity = 1.000000
size = 60, 120

and in your system ini file you must add this :

[Asteroids]
file = solar\asteroids\noflare.ini
zone = Zone_noflare

[Zone]
nickname = Zone_noflare
pos = 0, 0, 0
rotate = 0, 0, 0
shape = ELLIPSOID
size = 1000000, 1000000, 1000000
property_flags = 0
visit = 0
damage = 0
spacedust = 0
spacedust_maxparticles = 0
interference = 0.000000
sort = 20

and that fix the sun who pass throught the model …
i give you news as soon as possible for the stararch.ini ( i hope that’s work this way because it will be easier )

and for the boolean ^^
the method work good and i have made other tests
but you’re right, from outside you hit the box and from the inside not.
so 2 solutions :

add simple surface around the hole
or use the spline to draw the contours of the object, including hole
i will make a video today to show you

Buck Rogers

Thx Mirkha

This maybe bad practice but I use
Lod = 0, 999999 for all models

So the only downside to using Splines instead of Standard Primitives is the solar flare, but the surface hit detection works better.

StarTrader

Well, here are my findings…

I made a large sphere 200m diameter with a large boolean box removed from the front to the centre of the sphere, making a wide entrance dock in the sphere.

As usual the sphere was not visible in-game until I fitted an HpMount hardpoint.

It also disappeared from view when the centre is off-screen, until I made a sur for it. Resizing the model cmp itself and saving it with the new bounding box (radius) in FL Model Tool did not stop this.

The freshly-exported untouched sur crashed FL. Still crashed after using FL Model Tool to resize it x 1 as scenery then as ship/station again. Tried several times and ways, still same. This sur also has bridged the dock entrance with faces, which we knew the exporter does…

(How can I attach an image guys?)

Incidentally, FL Model Tool adds the HpMount shield bubble (0xF00FB9DE - “Unknown_Mesh_f00fb9de”) to the sur too when you make the type = ship/station! I found that out a couple of days ago.

Surprise though - after passing a freshly-exported sur (not the resized one) through sur-splicer, the bridging across the entrance is removed, and the dock roof, floor, backwall and sidewalls are properly shaped into the sphere!!

And this sur did not crash FL, I was able to launch and approach the sphere.

But - it’s not working as you described it in your tutorial, guys! You didn’t test extensively enough - tsk! tsk!

From outside the sphere my ship bounced off everywhere, but passed through when approaching the dock from the front and below the dock floor level. When inside, it bounces off the dock roof and back wall once but still passes through them. There is no collision with the floor or side walls.

I made an entry for the sphere in concave.ini - no change. I set the sphere as type = MISSION_SATELLITE, PLANET, FIGHTER in solararch.ini - same performance from the sur.

My guess is it is something to do with normals, Lancer mentioned that he spotted that the collision detection method uses normals. So somehow the sur exporter/sur-splicer is almost there but not putting all the info that’s needed into the sur file.

Sun flare is shining through the sphere.

I have some screenshots but can’t see a way to attach them, can anyone help how?

Anyhow, for a working sur for this type of problem we still need to make the sur in 5 parts - two part-spheres for the internal sidewalls, two pieces of sphere for the floor & ceiling, and one more for the backwall, all fitted together with sur-splicer.

My huge Romulan D’Deridex and many other large hollow-ship surs are made in this way and all of them work like a charm after sorting out some concavities here and there.

And the sun does not flare through the models. This may also be to do with normals.

It seems to be nearly there, it’s likely that the sur-splicer reverses some faces when it constructs the internal sur parts. If only we had someone to make us a new sur exporter plugin! (Hint! Hint!)

If someone can tell me how I’ll edit my post and attach some screenshots.

Buck Rogers

The screenies need to be hosted somewhere, i.e. photobucket or image shack and then a link to them is provided for posting them on a forum

I just put mine onto our web server and link them in "

StarTrader

Ah, thanks for the image info.

Your mat problem must be a name wrong somewhere - basic stuff to check is:-

mat filename correctly defined in solararch.ini for bases (or shiparch.ini for ships)?
internal materials names correct?
materials correctly assigned to model parts?
imported in DDS or TGA format only in mat file?
Node name (UTF Edit of mat file) should be MIP0 for TGA and MIPS for DDS? (When you click on a MIPS node you will see the contents in the data window will start with “DDS”).
export the materials from the mat file nodes using UTF Edit and check they are as you expect.

Hope one of these solves it.

FriendlyFire

Texture is flipped upside down if it is a TGA, and not so if it is a DDS?

Mindhunter

@FriendlyFire:

Texture is flipped upside down if it is a TGA, and not so if it is a DDS?

Exactly.

Mirkha

@Buck:

Thx Mirkha

This maybe bad practice but I use
Lod = 0, 999999 for all models

your freelancer.exe is hacked ? because if not the limit is about 10000 i think …

@Buck:

So the only downside to using Splines instead of Standard Primitives is the solar flare, but the surface hit detection works better.

no, with the splines and with the shapes, we have the same bug.
fixed by add a particular field to you entier system or just near the base.
but keep in mind that the problem is for bases AND ships, so if you don’t fix for the entire system, you will have the bug for ships. in fact for small it’s not a problem but for big one …
as strartrader has said i think it’s a limitation of the sursplicer…

here a video for the use of a spline tool, and a solution for the boolean inside problem ;D

http://files.filefront.com/3dsmax+spline1avi/;12470336;/fileinfo.html

especially for the sphere shapes i thinlk that the splines are useful
keep in mind that spline tool mean also circle, ellipse, arc, ect …

@StarTrader:

Well, here are my findings…
I made a large sphere 200m diameter with a large boolean box removed from the front to the centre of the sphere, making a wide entrance dock in the sphere.
As usual the sphere was not visible in-game until I fitted an HpMount hardpoint.
It also disappeared from view when the centre is off-screen, until I made a sur for it. Resizing the model cmp itself and saving it with the new bounding box (radius) in FL Model Tool did not stop this.

you use the cmp exporter V3 ? with this I have not seen this problem, but with the v2.1 yes

@StarTrader:

The freshly-exported untouched sur crashed FL. Still crashed after using FL Model Tool to resize it x 1 as scenery then as ship/station again. Tried several times and ways, still same. This sur also has bridged the dock entrance with faces, which we knew the exporter does…
Incidentally, FL Model Tool adds the HpMount shield bubble (0xF00FB9DE - “Unknown_Mesh_f00fb9de”) to the sur too when you make the type = ship/station! I found that out a couple of days ago.
Surprise though - after passing a freshly-exported sur (not the resized one) through sur-splicer, the bridging across the entrance is removed, and the dock roof, floor, backwall and sidewalls are properly shaped into the sphere!!
And this sur did not crash FL, I was able to launch and approach the sphere.

yes … the only way is to use the sursplicer

@StarTrader:

But - it’s not working as you described it in your tutorial, guys! You didn’t test extensively enough - tsk! tsk!

i don’t see how … i don’t have write to user flmodeltools.exe for other thing to find the radius of your object.
if i understand well your first sur exported have a bridged entrance ? so you not use the sursplicer and obviously you sur crash the game. just normal …

@StarTrader:

From outside the sphere my ship bounced off everywhere, but passed through when approaching the dock from the front and below the dock floor level. When inside, it bounces off the dock roof and back wall once but still passes through them. There is no collision with the floor or side walls.

use splines and you can do a hitbox who work at the inside too
but i have to said that for me it’s a little problem for a docking part … when you go inside a dock … you dock …
obviously you will find players who love pass througt the dock just for fun ^^ … well you have the choice :).

@StarTrader:

I made an entry for the sphere in concave.ini - no change. I set the sphere as type = MISSION_SATELLITE, PLANET, FIGHTER in solararch.ini - same performance from the sur.

no change at all you’re right

@StarTrader:

My guess is it is something to do with normals, Lancer mentioned that he spotted that the collision detection method uses normals. So somehow the sur exporter/sur-splicer is almost there but not putting all the info that’s needed into the sur file.

i think too. i have ask for dev (he wrote the sur-splicer) but he doesn’t know why did this …

@StarTrader:

Sun flare is shining through the sphere.

just fix it with the shield for the system or near your base
it’s not a choice. if you want use this technique you need the sursplicer and if you use the surplicer you need to fix the sun …

@StarTrader:

It seems to be nearly there, it’s likely that the sur-splicer reverses some faces when it constructs the internal sur parts. If only we had someone to make us a new sur exporter plugin! (Hint! Hint!)

^^
if you find somenone, just ask him to make exporter for 3DSMAX too ^^

hope this help

Mirkha

sorry for the double answer …

more testing and I think yes, the problem seems to be with the sur splicer
if I work with lines or shapes, it’s the same, you pass througt from the inside …
i don’t understand how with the splines, it’s possible … You have saw the video … it’s juste an object … no hole inside in fact
o__________O

at this point, i don’t know more but give you news as soon i find

Buck Rogers

Thx for the video Mirkha

I have found another small issue; it’s with using the ghost sheres to allocate the surs. After building up my model, following the tutorial to the letter, I found that by grouping all the main model groups together I couldn’t allocate invidual mat files to the sub groups. FL just seemed to show the first mat file on all the sections.

I ended up breaking the model down into 9 single group cmps and building the model together in space. Apart from the somewhat random collision detection on the part with the docking holes, it now works as i hoped.

I haven’t tried splines yet, still downloading the vid, I’m in Cambodia at the moment and only have 256kb broadband. It’s like living in the stone age

Mirkha

it’s very easy to cut your model with 3dsmax and make several cmp
and your sur will be also more accurate

i have test tonight to put the no flare field around my base and it works perfectly
in fact you just need to add the code to you system ini file
you can no put the noflare.ini to the asteroid folder and that works fine

for one time a freelancer bug help us xD \o/

for the mat issue i have no answer sorry
i use only one mat file by cmp.

but in the tutorial, you have to make x-1 spheres and export with the number of cmp part in the first undergoup in the exporter settings
you can do different
just add x-y (y = the number of cmp group) spheres
and name starting with the last sphere. the last must have the last sur name
then export with the v3 and put the total number of groups and 1 in each undergroup

that works fine too

Buck Rogers

I Finally got my model working 95%, enough to use it although i would love to get the other 5% to make it perfect.

Here’s what i did
My model comprises of 9 parts so instead of building a single cmp (due to the mat file issue I made 9 indivdual cmps, one for each section

I built each section in 3DS Max and made sure that the centre of the model was at 0 on all 3 planes when imported into MilkShape (3DS use the base line for the X plane)

I then imported it into MilkShape with autoSmooth checked and made sure it was centred exactly. I export the cmp uising v2 and then resized it using FLModel Tool making a note of the radius.

Next I built an exact copy of the model in 3DS (I never used clone) to use as the the sur but using as few faces and vertices as possible, i.e. my model was a cone with 48 sections and 8 slices but the sur is 24 sections and 1 slice.

I made sur it was centred by dividing the height and exported it without converting to editable mesh. I found that this doesn’t matter for surs either way.

I then imported the sur into MilkShape with autoSmooth unchecked and all I had to do was rotate it. I didn’t adjust it in any other way so as not to screw it up.

I then exported the sur using v1 exporter (the only one that seems to work at the moment) and used sur_splice to mate it to the cmp using the radius I got earlier from FLModel Tool.

I then assembled the model in space by adjusting the location to match them up and made 8 of the sections as children to the main section so that it was selectable in space as a single unit

This method has worked perfectly for each section except the one with the boolean holes in, shame but it’s still early.

Using this method I can have seperate mat files for each section plus the radius when approaching is more accurate and the solar flare only shines through when you are withing that radius

As for the boxed holes for docking they work when you initially enter as i bounced off the roof section but then I tried the floor and passed straight through. Once I had passed through the floor i found that I could now pass through the roof that initially bounced me off. Weird

Has anyone been able to make their own animated docking doors?

StarTrader

Just a brief pointer or two…

The reason I don’t like to add dummy parts (spheres or dev’s boxes) is that:-

1. I break up my models into sensible names anyway, and use these names with _lod1 on the end.

2. when the ships are destroyed the separate groups break away and spin in space ! Nice!

3. When you group ship parts that use different textures they are combined to use only one texture - messes things up.

4. I don’t want lots of surplus bits if I can avoid it. Duhhh - that’s just me, don’t worry, not criticising.

Hey - I’m very pleased so many of you are now looking into these problems too, maybe a proggie who wrote one of these plugins can help us out to get a better solution? Dev?

Bejaymac?

Where are you?

If you tell us everything you know about the structure of different sur types it may save us a long long time, bud. I might even send you a bottle of Glayva!

(Of course once you’ve done that we’ll have to bump you off!!)

StarTrader

Any updates or new experiences anyone?

? Offline

i had a try at crating surs inside and out this is what the results were
http://fl-onslaught.com/maze.zip
i found if your doing a dome shape you have to split it into 4 and use havok to generate the sur
and its fine inside and out

Mirkha

……

StarTrader

Well done, Kosacid.

Excellent Mirkha & co., great news all round, I can’t wait to try.

This will let the more serious modders have a few more years of FL invention and exploration!

Thanks for putting in the time and for sharing with us.

ChampsZeWonder

warning …
just an update to our process

this method work only with the SUR exporter 1.1, cuz the 1.2 don’t have the same algorythm and generate a crash

Mirkha

yes and rewarning because i can not reproduce this for the base i’m working on

it works for the i7 but not for the skyhook
i don’t understand how and why for the moment so i have to make tests

don’t waste your time for me moment, i give you news as soon as possible.

sorry

Forsaken

Mirkha, any update on this? Im working on a base model atm and Im hitting the 18 part limit wall. If you can figure out how to duplicate your previous success that’d be awesome.