.obj -> .sur converter
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Hi Schmackbolzen
The holidays are in full swing as far as I know, and hopefully you are enjoying your free time too.
If you will continue with the converter to make it multi-group, and maybe add the basic hardpoint shapes that the original exporter already puts in (but this is not essential for this converter as long as the HPIDS are included), then you will have two dedicated and grateful fans.
Only 2, because clearly nobody else is interested, no-one else has said so here or anywhere.
So clearly they do not want it and will not use it even if you do complete it.
As you know I have been criticised by several members for being selfish in asking for it before, since nobody else really wants it, so it is only for me and now Ezekiel also said he wants it.
Nobody else said they want it.
Not FF, not W0dk4, not the Discovery developers, not any other team developers, and not anybody else either.
So nobody else needs it.
Not for their current mod, and not for any future mod either.
So this means all your work will be only for me and for Ezekiel.
Yes, I am rubbing their faces in it.
So I have an idea - I might be able to pay you a moderate commission to develop it only for me and for Ezekiel, since nobody else wants it.
In this case of course, you and I will own the rights to the converter, and I will not release it to anyone else, only to Ezekiel, under a no-distribution agreement, and I will ask you to not release it to anyone else without my permission too.
But if you do not want to continue with it in the next month or so, then no matter - but please say so now, so that I don’t continue to hang around waiting any more.
After all, only I and Ezekiel really want it.
And my need is for my personal use only.
So I await to know if you will continue shortly please.
I know that when the next term starts (or if you start in a job) you will not be able to work on it.
Many thanks.
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StarTrader wrote:
So nobody else needs it.
Not for their current mod, and not for any future mod either.
On the contrary, StarTrader, I use it and love it. I have never bashed anyone here, only look to offer and ask questions, which everyone seems to be able to help with as their FL Knowledge is far better then mine. It has made hundreds for great surs for me. If he wishes to make it pay only, I’d most likey pay. I hope Schmackbolzen keeps it free but, if the latter, so be it. Not trying to sound like a ass about it, just saying.
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Same, i’m waiting for it
and check this post dayly But i think Schmackbolzen is enjoying some hollidays after his exam period few weeks ago
Let him enjoying the SSAS ( Sea, Sex And Sun )
Then, i’m sure e will come back with the powerfull Sur tool ever made -
Tactful as always, ST. :roll:
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ST I don’t know if you’re trying some sort of weird reverse psychology but I think you’ll find many people still want and need a proper multi group sur exporter, including me
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Hard to tell, really.
While I’ve only used it once for FL10K so far, I can definately tell it will be an invaluable tool for the future, and while it is obviously up to Schmack, having it in some way locked down would be slightly depressing.
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It’s ST. Ignore one post out of two and you’ll find your sanity mostly intact
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Well, as I said before it is not a matter of not wanting to finish it, but rather a lot of exams this semester (since I don’t want to study all my life :P). Next exam is on Monday and the last 4 in September. I don’t want to run out of time for learning, so I rather invest the time now than just before the exams (I bet I will run short anyway). That said I only had the last week which you could consider as holidays and even in this week I took some time to learn.
If someone wants to thank me with donating I will think about it, but I don’t want to make it exclusive for only a few people. I plan to make it open source anyway, once I have it in a shape so that one would understand it (which is not the case right now).
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Oh, hello everyone!
Wow! All of a sudden, several more of you have come out of the woodwork, and seem interested in Schmackbolzen developing the sur converter?!!
It was not the case a very short while ago though, was it?
My comment on restricting the converter was that I offered to pay Schmack a commission to develop it for me and Ezekiel privately, because until today we were the only two people interested, everyone else kept silence.
As there was no response except from us, it is not worth developing for only 2 people, unless I am willing to pay for it and Schmackbolzen accepts.
I am willing. But a commission to complete it specifically for me, not a donation.
And if Schmackbolzen accepts, I will want the rights to it in partnership with him. Why? Because nobody else was interested.
Until today.
Everyone keeps quiet until they see a threat to lose something, don’t you.
So yes, I was rubbing the magic lamp to get someone else to speak. And you have, finally.
Sushi, tactful only when it doesn’t fall on deaf ears. I was tactful last time I asked. And it fell on deaf ears, as I and Ezekiel appeared to be the only ones with any interest.
And I was tactful (kept my temper, didn’t I?) the time before that, when I did extensive testing of surs which kept crashing, despite everyone who commented saying it must be my environment or my testing methods which were at fault, only Adoxa took the trouble to humour me?
Again I was persistent. And indeed we did find a problem. And Adoxa made a solution.
Or as in the Sur Builder fiasco when I really lost my rag, because it was just cranky old ST again, trying to “deliberately break the tool”, not providing solid diagnostic proof of the problems in Sur Builder. And being ignored. Only one other person tried and understood that time.
That tool was shelved despite being so near to great. Nobody else spoke then either.
Nah, I am still smouldering, tact is too subtle here, a sledgehammer is needed. Or a snappy old Croc.
Maybe one day someone will actually think to himself “you know if it wasn’t for Cranky Old ST’s persistence we wouldn’t have a solution for this… or a tutorial for that… OR a fully-working SUR generator/converter/builder/exporter!”.
I live in hope.
No, actually you are right. Yes, you are! I’m only doing things for purely selfish reasons, to boost my own ego and benefit only me. (Oh, and of course my new friend and sidekick Ezekiel).
But now maybe Alucard? Thaddeus? Sushi? And maybe those other Silent Others who let someone else fight their battles alone?
(Oh! No, they aren’t really interested or they would have said so, they can do it another way just as easily and it isn’t worth Schmackbolzen’s time to develop it). So they stay silent.
Sarcasm, sardonic irony and reverse-psychology are second nature to some people, and can be funny or just… annoying… or… unintelligible… or… thought-provoking… or… just a tragic end to a discussion.
Dunno, my vision is getting cloudy as I cry my crocodile tears and wait for Mana from Heaven…
OK here’s a clear request to maybe get some motion:
Schmackbolzen: much more than others, I very much appreciate the work you have already done, but the tool needs to be completed to generate fully-functioning vanilla-type surs.
So, if you decide not to try to complete the converter in the near future (this year), would you please say so clearly here? Thank you my friend.
This might then encourage someone else to try to make another version, since so many silent people out there actually ARE waiting for a fully-functional SUR tool?
This is now my third full year of waiting for one. I’m three years older and still ageing.
Thank you.
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Either that or people have already voiced their interest, but then understood that Schmack is busy and will do it as soon as time allows and thus that nagging will lead to absolutely nothing.
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Someone with the drive and ability to make this tool, ST, would have the brains to realise that it would indeed be loved by all.
Why did he create it in the first place if he didn’t realise that?Now, granted, a little vocal support doesn’t go astray, but I don’t think Schmack needs support right this very minute.
Why? He’s busy with exams and won’t be working on the tool in any great amounts in the first place, he said that.
It’s not like you go support a football team in winning the Grand Final/Superbowl/Whatever while they’re at their accountants organising their personal accounts, do you?You seem to have generated a large stink for no apparent reason. Of course people appreciate it, they would have already said so after using it. Or, they’re like me and waiting until they actually use it properly to give heartfelt thanks and support (or maybe it’s just me :P).
Shmack, good luck in your studies and exams, a sur tool aint gonna get your future in order, but they certainly will.
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@ST: Well, if you are afraid that I might not develop it further I can assure you that should it come to that I will make it open source without cleaning up the code. To much work went into it to just leave it.
Since it’s written in Freepascal using Lazarus and I used many complex algorithms I am not sure if one would understand what I do without comments in the code (they are missing too ;)). In fact I don’t know anyone but Crazy who knows Pascal (Delphi in his case). Usually they all like Java, C#, C++, Python and all that crap. I go with Tim Sweeney here (founder of Epic Games) who said he never could understand how one could write games in C++ and not Pascal. “TS: Yeah, it was a good language. It was more rigorous than C++. When I moved from Pascal to C++ to create Jill of the Jungle, it was a real shock that people would actually be using a programming language that was so bad for large-scale development. To think that operating systems are built in that sort of language was really terrifying.”
So that was my offtopic contribution plus the usual language bashing from my side. But if I opened someones eyes then it was worth it
Thanks everyone for their success wishes!
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euh, i’m a delphi programmer IRL……Pascal is a good language… I use borland delphi 6 all days^^
I have switched from C/C++ to Pascal, it’ was a bit difficult at the beginning, but now, switching from Pascal to C/C++ is more difficult ^^ Cause, the syntax is not so different, but the programming style is not very similar^^
And i understand Schmackbolzen when he want to clean the code before release the source, because it may be difficult to understand the code without proper comments when you dont know Pascal Language^^
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Rewind to your first comment on page 1 of the thread ST. If he’d listened to you at the start he would have scrapped the project long ago, because according to you at that time it wouldn’t be used. Now it’s nag, nag, nag, whine, whine, whine, hurry up and finish this tool! Gotta love you aye, you’re full on nuts!
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StarTrader wrote:
If you decide not to, then I am sorry, and thank you for trying, but I won’t use it very much (if at all), because I can already do this with existing MS tools and 3DSMax tools, and it is a pain now. Your utility will not make anything easier if you make it in the way you say.Indeed…
Either it’s pure irony or ignorance
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Schmackbolzen: OK, thanks. I have no idea of the benefits or comparison of Pascal, I used it very briefly many years ago so I am aware of its existence, but I was not aware it is still current.
To the negativ-sprechers:
“Voiced your interest”? When, pray?
Not on this thread when I asked.
My first comment: It re-iterates a VERY obvious point - that half-working tools are not useful. Schmack would indeed be wasting his time if he produced another half-working tool. So why should he waste his time? Even bad old “I” would not want him to do that.
“My Specs”: Although I wrote the post, it was Bejaymac who explored the sur to the minutest detail over a very long time, and laid out in several long-since-lost posts what that structure requires to function properly. It’s not my spec and not Bejaymacs either, it is DA and MS’s. He unravelled it and tried very hard and very patiently over a long time to explain it to all of us. I listened to him and eventually I put them into a list because that is what surs need to have to function properly.
As for .obj format as an input? You too will eventually agree that although this makes the utility more flexible, so that you can use it with 3DSMax and other programs, when you need to generate 200+ conversions in sequence, you too will be just a teeny-weeny little bit less happy about it and wish it would work from a .cmp or from within the chosen graphics program as an exporter.
What is the criteria for a sur?
“Surly”, this is obvious? Any vanilla sur.So “surly”, a sur creating tool should make an identical sur to the vanilla one for the same vanilla ship, from whatever input is chosen?
We know that a sur containing less than this will not work fully.
e.g.: concave shapes = non-detection and/or crashes.
e.g.: no HpIDs = crashes.
e.g.: no Hardpoint geometry = no hits on mounted weapons, as a couple of people reported a while ago.
We already have several SUR creation utilities which are LESS than productive because they don’t produce completely working, reliable surs.
So - No, I don’t want another less than complete tool. And behind your masks of criticism, nor do you. I was being clear and honest.
Yes I know I am badgering Schmack for a timeline, because I have been waiting for this tool for a very long time. Several others took on this task and then gave up without finishing it. But of course you have already forgotten?
Me? This is my third time around. So I would like to know how long is this piece of string.
Secretly, so do you, but you prefer to ride on the backs of others such as me, while biting our necks. That is despicable.
Show me how completing this utility to the extent of producing identical surs to vanilla will not benefit all of you?
So my cajoling will also not benefit you, right?
But right now it’s just ST-bashing time to some of you.
This is OK for a while, I don’t care too much most of the time, I am reasonably thick skinned.
But don’t go too far, children.
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w0dk4 wrote:
StarTrader wrote:
If you decide not to, then I am sorry, and thank you for trying, but I won’t use it very much (if at all), because I can already do this with existing MS tools and 3DSMax tools, and it is a pain now. Your utility will not make anything easier if you make it in the way you say.Indeed…
Either it’s pure irony or ignorance
Only time will tell.
