The Lancers Reactor and the Freelancer Community Network

Chips

Tough call for you lot

It all comes down to what the site, right here, is. If it’s a community site, then you should do what’s best for folks - voting is obviously the way you decided

If you believe adding TLR is best, despite past aggressions and accepting apologies - then I honestly don’t believe you should be held hostage by “if they join, we leave” type responses… that’s their decision, and shouldn’t influence your own. Make your own decision as a community Personally, if you get that response, I’d remove them as well as not allow TLR Then in two months ask them if they’ve changed their mind.

Obviously the best method would be for Swat, Azza, Knife and everyone else with issues - to get together and talk like mature folks, and listen to each other, hash things out etc. If there’s no chance of patching anything up - then I’d just not include any of them til they do

Then again, I’m not noted for messing about with patty cake games

For me it’s just disappointing that this crap has appeared on here too Can’t they flame each other on their own forums? :(:(:(

CatDog

As i made some promotion for the Toolbar , i get the response that reading through 8 pages ( with 5 pages full of TLR politics ) isnt the least bit interesting for that server .
This poll doesnt help much , way too much attention TLR get , and a shame that servers wont be added , as they wont deal with this stuff .

Forsaken

I agree with Chip in this regard….

Obviously the best method would be for Swat, Azza, Knife and everyone else with issues - to get together and talk like mature folks, and listen to each other, hash things out etc. If there’s no chance of patching anything up - then I’d just not include any of them til they do

Mindhunter

@Forsaken:

I agree with Chip in this regard….

Obviously the best method would be for Swat, Azza, Knife and everyone else with issues - to get together and talk like mature folks, and listen to each other, hash things out etc. If there’s no chance of patching anything up - then I’d just not include any of them til they do

Sry but i don’t think that will work, to many shit happened for a discussion.

mknote

@Forsaken:

I agree with Chip in this regard….

Obviously the best method would be for Swat, Azza, Knife and everyone else with issues - to get together and talk like mature folks, and listen to each other, hash things out etc. If there’s no chance of patching anything up - then I’d just not include any of them til they do

Aye, I second this. I don’t care what’s happened, there’s never a point in which there’s no turning back. Everything can always be hashed out given enough effort.

MK

OPR8R

There have been MANY tries to solve the problems in a civilized way by talking the TLR staff. Many times i went to them trying to get explainations for their damaging actions.
With the only result that the TLR staff broke more rules, insulted us and started other attacks.
There have been MANY lies by them and I have no reason that a single word that they say would mean anything serious.
Even the TLR owner went to another community site (freelancercommunity.net) to claim that azza and knife are no TLR admins and that they have nothing to do with all the stuff going on there while they meanwhile used fake accounts (admin accounts) on TLR (eagle_one + sarge + TLR_tech1 + TLR_tech2). Direct lies against communities which even stayed neutral.
How should somebody of us believe just a single word coming from those guys and how can problems be solved if there are only lies coming from them.

Azza posting an apology on the TLR forum and not long later he told me that he could do massive damage to my site by destroying the sql databases. That shows pretty much that those words cant be taken serious.

mknote

OP, you’re a person who is blunt, so I’ll be just as blunt. How do we know any of this? You’ve provided us with evidence that TLR has insulted and whatnot, but it is certainly conceviable that this evidence has been fabricated. You definatly have an agenda against TLR, and while I certainly believe you more than I would MentalChaos or AzzA, the truth is I really don’t have any reason to believe either TLR or SWAT. If there was a neutral third party to mediate these discussions and then report back, then of course I’d find the story more credible. But as it stands, I cannot take for granted that you’re telling the truth on the insults and whatnot. Now, the hacking is a different story, but there I would say to let bygones be bygones.

MK

Cap.Dylan Hunt

Its the starports choice. If they add them back on. Fine. Im not going to ask for my site to be removed. Im not happy with the TLR. But its not going to stop me from being part of the Community.
-Starbuck

Edit:
w0dk4 if you read this, thanks for adding The CW.

OPR8R

mindhunter, torch…. and all these others aint a valueable 3rd party being able to confirm what happened?
There are many more and even I get to know about more and more stuff which was going on with other FL communites as meanwhile many server admins have took the chance to contact me.

I have posted many logs and screenshots showing what has been going on already, so did other ppl too.
I posted that stuff on my forum not trying to influence ppl before they could make their own oppinion… i only posted the logs and pics and gave ppl several days time before i posted my views so they could voice their thoughts.
I prefere to show facts instead of making unreasonable claims.

The current results of the poll prove me right with my oppinion about TLR and shows that many others have the same oppinion.

Cap.Dylan Hunt

OP is right. Ive seen the pictures.

mknote

@OPR8R:

I have posted many logs and screenshots showing what has been going on already, so did other ppl too.

Logs and screenshots can be fabricated. Â Look, I’m not trying to call you a liar (and I know it sounds like I am), I’m just playing Devil’s Advocate. Â I am a skeptical person by nature, and I’m just hoping for more concrete evidence, things that couldn’t be fabricated, an admission of guilt by the offending parties, etc.

You have a well known dislike of TLR, so anything you say is tainted by bias. Â The same goes for Torch. Â Mindhunter I’ve admittadly never heard of, so perhaps s/he would be unbiased, but the point is that reports are most convicing when they come from parties who have nothing to gain by admission of said report.

Personally, I believe in the best of people, so my vote will stand regardless, but I just want this to be done right so that we won’t look back six months or a year from now and regret our decision.

MK

Chips

This thread is off topic already

@OPR8R:

Even the TLR owner went to another community site (freelancercommunity.net) to claim that azza and knife are no TLR admins and that they have nothing to do with all the stuff going on there while they meanwhile used fake accounts (admin accounts) on TLR (eagle_one + sarge + TLR_tech1 + TLR_tech2).

No offence, but that’s old news. It was obvious from the start anyway, perhaps time to drop this one?

@OPR8R:

Not long later he told me that he could do massive damage to my site by destroying the sql databases. That shows pretty much that those words cant be taken serious.

He told or he threatened? Right now this is Â back to Swat vs Azza

This is Starport + Toolbar + TLR isn’t it

Cap.Dylan Hunt

i would let the Starport chose. And as as of OPR8R and Azza. Chips is right. This is turning into a fight between Swat and TLR. Not the topic at hand.

OPR8R

if logs and even screenshots have no meaning then nothing on this planet can prove anything
nothing that would be presented as proof would be valid in your eyes mk

in your eyes they can do whatever they want - treat ppl in the worst possible ways, lie, hack and do whatever they want
and no proof would ever by valid

or like chips you would call it “old stories”
those old stories aint old and even when stuff was obvious it still has been a lie
you always claim that it is SWAT vs TLR but that is not true… SWAT is just one of many FL communities which have problems with TLR and starport not long ago also had problems with TLR and i know for sure that several SP staff members still have these problems
To me it looks like some ppl like to stick their head into the sand and hope for the best no matter if that means to get kicked in the ass meanwhile.

It is also not true that i always had my problems with TLR
If you remember I was TLR admin once and have spent many weeks rebuilding the TLR site and fixing the bugs… i also have supported TLR in many other ways including donating money or establishing connections with game developers. Since november 07 i offered help to TLR serveral times and even defended mental half of you wanted him to leave TLR. I did this until the point he started to insult me for no reason (something which seems to be normal for that guy).
The problems started when the TLR staff decided to damage other FL communities. And it surprises me that some ppl which had a big part in the way how these troubles startes meanwhile claim that they have nothing to do with it anymore and that the problems are only between others.

Chips is right with one point… this thread has gone off topic again (partly to my fault) so i will stop it now.
you can keep sticking your head into the sand now and think that im a liar and that those screenshots that i posted and all the screenshots that other ppl have posted are not true and that knife, azza + mental are the only ppl that are not guilty

cheeseontoast

It’s time to kick ass and chew gum… and im all outta gum.

Chips

@ Cheese - I have a soundboard of that for work, along with Arnie and Cartman. Boss now hates talking to Arnie over the phone

I haven’t voted and won’t - there isn’t one with a “I have no view”. TBH it’s easy to remain angry or annoyed and dislike the people in charge of TLR but that’s going to achieve nothing. Whatever you guys decide is what I’ll go with instead

And it surprises me that some ppl which had a big part in the way how these troubles startes meanwhile claim that they have nothing to do with it anymore and that the problems are only between others.

I honestly don’t know what you are insinuating within your post, or if you are trying - I don’t know whom you’re talking about or why it’s relevant at all… or even what time period/frame this was in either.

By the way, I think it’s time you took a step back, a breathe and moved on mate…

Ive set up a new site just for TLR and their sick action against the FL community.
It will cover every detail, images and logs. The site is not 100% rdy… many threads are reserved others have already been used to show info. We will fill the board with all missing info… bit by bit.

Why did i create that page?
1. to show how TLR and their admins really are
2. to show those TLR guys that a phpbb board can look good unlike what they have created
3. to report about TLR without the need to use the SWAT forum
4. to have a link for everything important if you guys want to show other FL players what is really going on
5. to have a site that is hosted by a company which would go after every hacker that tries any shit on it (without me getting involved too much)
6. to give you the free chance to discuss and post your oppinions without disturbing other players or visitors of SWAT

Here is the link: tlrfacts.tk

if you made some experience with TLR you should register there and show us what they have done to you ^^

I don’t want to sound rude, but I don’t think that’s “normal”, you need to take some time off, sit back, forget about the worries and chill. Whilst it’s good you’re getting it off of your own forum - if you’re going on a vendetta like this, that’s the point to realise things are going to far (although I do have a semi-morbid curiosity to see what’s put up there :D)

? Offline

Guys this poll was not put up to bring up bad blood anywhere, this poll was put up to see what the community as a whole wanted, so please keep it in that text.

Thanks.

FriendlyFire

Since this is a community site and we are here to offer a service to that same community, it would be logical for the community itself to decide what should happen.

Yes, SWAT has a bias. So do I. So does everyone. What we need to decide is which bias to go for. And that’s not dependent solely on the Staff. It’s a community wide decision (for a community network, right?) and so it should be decided by the community. Hence this poll.

I don’t think we could find a definite conclusion on the matter without, as was said already, everyone included in the issues talking their hearts out without trying to lie, fake or cover things up. This, however, must be put in perspective: everyone isn’t AzzA, Mental, Knife and SWAT. Everyone means every single person who was part of the crisis, the issue. That means most of the major server admins, the Starport Staff altogether, many from SWAT Portal, etc. At this point, I think the damage, while not irreversible, is deeply rooted. It would be extremely complex (both psychologically and on an organization standpoint) to arrange such a meeting and get things done.

What must be decided can be summarized into this: do we give TLR a second chance? They have betrayed, damaged, stole, destroyed, attacked. However, it’s hard to condemn them forever. People change, they evolve. Yes, I know little time has passed and I also know it is hard to know whether their intentions were genuine in the last few “mistakes” they made. This is all a matter of trust, faith and respect.

To conclude, I will point out that polls have the very important point that everyone’s say is equal. Mine is like SWAT’s or like the newbie who never posted. Don’t let the debates blind you or manipulate you. Choose what you believe is the best option in your own mind. The results we gather from this will then be applied, although revisiting the issue is not out of the question at a later date. Just know that this choice cannot be done by a sole person or even a handful; it needs to be seen as a community-wide issue. If you believe it to be important, remember to talk about it.

Thanks for keeping the tone calm and respectful,
FF

OPR8R

Things already went too far when TLR started to hack and damage my site for no other reason than supporting a Starport staff member (or having contacts to that SP staff member)
That issue has been handed over to my lawyer meanwhile.

As long TLR is doing shit i will show it to the FL community by posting the logs and screenshots. Thats no vendetta. That is reporting the facts and hosting that site is a way to get this topic out of my forum.
Btw. I would welcome it if ppl would stop using fake accounts on my forum.

Chips

@OPR8R:

Things already went too far when TLR started to hack and damage my site for no other reason than supporting a Starport staff member (or having contacts to that SP staff member)
That issue has been handed over to my lawyer meanwhile.

As long TLR is doing shit i will show it to the FL community by posting the logs and screenshots. Thats no vendetta. That is reporting the facts and hosting that site is a way to get this topic out of my forum.
Btw. I would welcome it if ppl would stop using fake accounts on my forum.

Furry muff, I’ll read that site whenever it’s finished. I will keep an open mind as to the fact it’s a lone perspective, but it’ll fill holes that I’m unaware of - and I tend to get interested in that

As for fake accounts? What’s a fake account exactly? If you refer to me, my name isn’t actually Chips you know Whatever account I’m registered on has a real person behind it, so it aint fake

I’m going to stick with my abstension - don’t get me wrong - I questioned Azza’s apology, I think it needs proof more than words to prove his sorry, and that times changed - which requires time. I only registered on TLR to question his apology, I refuse to take part on that site - it doesn’t match with my personal viewpoints/feelings for a community site with how its run or people are treated.

Just the poll appears to have a door open or closed type response only. Be nice if a “not for now” was there