Offset requests - ship spinning & docking speed

adoxa

@Gisteron: Yeah, that’s right. I’ve updated the list with both offsets. No, there are tests to ensure it doesn’t go over 1.

@foxUnit01: I was sorry because I didn’t look into it. Don’t even know where to start. Can I use the “Realistic Battleship Mod (cheap)” that comes with FLMM for testing? How do I then cause the spin? Do nudge_force or the inertia values in the sur have any effect?

foxUnit01

Well, if at all possible, take a big ship and try to get hit by an NPC (try sitting in front of a tradelane, dock, or somewhere else they frequent). Having a player collide with you should trigger a spin as well. The Realistic Battleship Mod will probably do the trick, though I’ve never used it.

Edit: Also, it’s fair to note this is a multiplayer-only thing. None of the ships suffer any spinning issues at all in singleplayer (since full physics are enabled - you can even drag an NPC around in your cargo bay in SP)

Skotty

NPCs will never spin around if a player or other NPC flies into them. The player won’t do that too, but just in SP! The NPC will do it in SP and MP.
It seems like there is something like “full” and “half” collision. The player has this “half” collision just in MP, everything else is everytime “full” collision.

Until this is fixed I can tell you to set the first value of rotation_inertia of big ships to 1% of the first value of angular_drag (x-axis), because the ship just spins around x-axis.
Steering_torque needs to get reduced at the first value to rebalance the faster speed (because the “drag” of rotation_inertia not noticeable anymore).

With 0,01 it moves not and spinning is very very slow. Autopilot is relativ stable because just one axis has reduced rotation_inertia.

StarTrader

No, this is very bad advice and will cause severe handling problems.

See this:http://forums.seriouszone.com/showthread.php?55250-Tutorial-ship-handling

foxUnit01

This is pretty much the solution 88 Flak has in place currently. However, it still has that annoying autopilot wagging that makes any autopilot unusable, particularly with Flak’s camera look-ahead used for Capital Ships (so you can steer and shoot at the same time).

Here’s my personal notes on ship handling:

Class          Steering  Coefficient
Base Steering  4.0       1.0
PLF            3.2       0.8
LF             3.2       0.8
HF             2.4       0.6
VHF            1.4       0.35
FR             1.2       0.30
Transport (L)  0.4       0.1
SC (L)         0.4       0.1
LC/WP (L)      0.2       0.05
Station (L)    0.1       0.025

Drag / Inertia Constants
Small: 50000, 50000, 50000 (anti-spin factor: 4)
Large: 500000000000000, 500000000000000, 500000000000000 (anti-spin factor: 8)
The drag constant is multiplied by the steering amount in the table above to work a value of steering_torque
The drag constant is divided by the antispin factor to work a value of rotation_inertia
Player-flown (te_ prefix) Large Capitals and Stations should have X-axis rotation_inertia use anti-spin of 500 and X-axis steering_torque divided by 8

Skotty

StarTrader wrote:
No, this is very bad advice and will cause severe handling problems.

See this:http://forums.seriouszone.com/showthread.php?55250-Tutorial-ship-handling

I read your tutorial. 10% of the angular drag is to much! It won’t affect the ship! It will still spin around like a carusell.

StarTrader

No.

If it’s less than 10% you will get the wagging on autopilot.

If it’s more than 20% the ship will spin like a top.

It is not perfect between these two values but a lot better.

The problem is also compounded by the inertia values in the sur file- I haven’t investigated those to find the effect.

There is also an elasticity parameter in contents.ini that will affect collision rebounds, but again I’ve not done limit investigations on that either.

Don’t forget the FL physics engine was not fine-tuned, it’s unfinished. It was not tested with large ships because DA didn’t put any in. Now we put in big ships we have hit these problems.

Maybe adoxa can find a tweak?

Skotty

Yes I know about that autopilot problem, but if you just put the first value of rotatin inertia to 1% of the first angular drag value it works good without fast spinning.
10% is to much!

StarTrader

What do you mean, the 1st value (X) only?

And the others to what?

Skotty

The ship is just spinning around it’s X-axis. So you just have to change the X-value of rotation_inertia to 1% of the angular_drag x-value.

Y and Z axis are not necessary to be changed.

Sushi

Gravedig

Time to rehash this. While the current patch method works, you really lose the the proper “capship” feel while turning (ie. huge massive hulking feeling while trying to get your ship to move). Has anyone looked into this any further?

Cannon

Yeah, drives me nuts too. Adoxa. Wink. Wink.

Sushi

Bump

foxUnit01

Bump

FriendlyFire

Wut, fox!?

[Black_Legion]Zeus

FriendlyFire wrote:
Wut, fox!?

!

Moonhead

I have some vague memory that Argh solved this… But he gave all the ships totally different stats, so I wouldn’t know if his solution could be implemented in just about every mod.

Besides, you would have to find his toolkit, version 1.2 iirc… In 1.3 he went over the top and had removed all light equipments because they caused bugs.

Anyway, the trick, iirc, was to make those ships incredibly heavy, and adjust all other stats to also keep them pilotable. But I was never really interested in that part of the game, so I don’t remember much, and could even be wrong too.

He was a pioneer in many things, Argh… I still use [my adaption of] his xml based modding method.

adoxa

I thought kosacid fixed it (see SpinProtection).

FR

F!R wrote:
….
The latest is the one, causing lag together with these plugins.
The rev. 196 dated 18.10.2012 by adoxa works fine 4 me
(together with those plugins).

I don’t think this will work very good with the FlHook versions
beyond the 196.

And for the v.196 I d recommend to use the
recompiled plugins from this thread:
2.0.0 Plugins/KosAcid Projects/Plugin Ports

Btw

would be cool, if someone would recompile those once more,
to meet the latest FlHook version.

foxUnit01

adoxa wrote:
I thought kosacid fixed it (see SpinProtection).

This is actually Kosacid’s plugin port of M0tah’s SpinProtection from FlakHook - it attempts to alleviate the issue by pushing away NPCs that come into contact with the player ship. However, the initial collision still causes some spin and it has no effect on player-player collisions, so it would still be ideal to solve the underlying cause directly (whatever is applying rotational force to the ship on collision).

If anyone hunts this down I will give them a cookie - and the last ones I baked were pretty damn good if I do say so myself.