Brrr and wut wit TLR?

Don’t make fun of OP just because you dislike him, regardless he is running communities out there, and this certainly won’t help at least increasing the chance to remove the split.

I respect OP just for the fact he is running one of the most populated servers out there, without complaints. I don’t necessarily like his attitude towards you, but I don’t like your attitude towards him either.

The fight between OP and Strail was kinda funny, though.

w0dk4, I think your post is best served with a little reminder about what has been Op’s stance for the past few years over this issue: http://the-starport.net/freelancer/forum/viewtopic.php?post_id=15112#forumpost15112
That information was taken from the tlrfacts.tk site, which is now defunct (a site created, and run, by Op - where he wrote all the info).

In 2006 a guy called OP-R8R announced at lancersreactor.com that the global list server would get shut down one year later. A serious warning which got ignored by the community, by you. One year later the global list server got shut down and the Freelancer communit was not prepared for this case because they ignored the only person which had enough knowledge about this issue.
Result of this is that the entire Freelancer community lost about 2.000 online players until the first solutions to this problem were developed.

Doesn’t even mention who made the solution!

I’m not making fun, just pointing out how certain people present themselves - you can draw your own conclusions as to whether they are accurately representing themselves, or generating and perpetuating their own propaganda.

Like this one:

• Talking about mods. Do you even have an idea how many features that are used in modern Freelancer mods are based on OP-R8Rs concepts? Did you know that OP-R8R was one of the first modders and that much of todays modding knowledge is based on his work?

rolls eyes I’m not saying that Op didn’t make concepts at all - just that this is a hugely misleading statement, as it implies much more than is reality - and I know quite a lot of the “first modders”

Now again, I’m not making fun - but I am trying to point out that people should take things with a pinch of salt. I promise it’s the last i say about such things.

Just to clarify, I do have respect for people’s work and their contributions, not just here, but elsewhere.

However I do strongly believe that respect does not mean I tolerate their, for want of a better word, bullshit - and I will call them on it, or question it, where appropriate.

Some people really appear to dislike this…tough. Anyway, last I say

@Wolfie, Gisteron, etc.

I’m not sure you realize it, but right now you sound like the so-called sage guys who’re giving thoughtful suggestions up-front, but which have absolutely zero worth if you dig a little.

Do you seriously believe people can just do format and start over just like that? I’m afraid this runs too deep. Furthermore, this changes nothing about our differing opinions of a lot of matters. How do you propose we solve them? Just calling us out to agree is an extremely easy and extremely weak answer - it provides no insight.

If the solution was so easy, this whole ordeal would’ve been done a long, long time ago. I’m having no fun constantly bickering and getting bickered at by OP, and I’m sure the feeling is shared.

Think about it carefully: if YOU were at our place, what would you do? Be honest, don’t picture yourself as some sort of saint, or you’d just be lying to yourself.

I’m still waiting for an answer from OP…

• Talking about mods. Do you even have an idea how many features that are used in modern Freelancer mods are based on OP-R8Rs concepts? Did you know that OP-R8R was one of the first modders and that much of todays modding knowledge is based on his work?

Hey AdoXa… F!R… GLOCK!! u see this S*#T… ??

I for one have never gleamed any light from anything remotely close to Crossfire or OP-R8R… this aint a OP bash… far from it… i just think that statement’s total B&$^#&#**%&# I learn’t everything i know from the above 3 modders… i don’t see a OP in that list… just sayin…

Some pll should think before they spew forth generality’s like the quote above… comments like that further alienate the speaker… and really Pi$$ me off

FriendlyFire wrote:
@Wolfie, Gisteron, etc.

I’m not sure you realize it, but right now you sound like the so-called sage guys who’re giving thoughtful suggestions up-front, but which have absolutely zero worth if you dig a little.

Do you seriously believe people can just do format and start over just like that? I’m afraid this runs too deep. Furthermore, this changes nothing about our differing opinions of a lot of matters. How do you propose we solve them? Just calling us out to agree is an extremely easy and extremely weak answer - it provides no insight.

If the solution was so easy, this whole ordeal would’ve been done a long, long time ago. I’m having no fun constantly bickering and getting bickered at by OP, and I’m sure the feeling is shared.

Think about it carefully: if YOU were at our place, what would you do? Be honest, don’t picture yourself as some sort of saint, or you’d just be lying to yourself.

I’m still waiting for an answer from OP…

Don’t say that, I didn’t say start from scratch and all will be fine, I’m saying stop arguing in this thread as it doesn’t make things better.

OP left the thread.

Xarian_Prime wrote:

I for one have never gleamed any light from anything remotely close to Crossfire or OP-R8R… this aint a OP bash… far from it… i just think that statement’s total B&$^#&#**%&# I learn’t everything i know from the above 3 modders… i don’t see a OP in that list… just sayin…

Some pll should think before they spew forth generality’s like the quote above… comments like that further alienate the speaker… and really Pi$$ me off

What? You learned stuff from me? When?

AdoXa… F!R… GLOCK!!

Sorry Wolfie

maybe you should clear out your differences privately. we won’t get an own opinion by reading who is the worse of you. you both are important leaders, you should be sensible enough to clear differences. if you are not, than the community will split and there is neither a way around it nor anyone else but you two, gentlemen, responsible in the end.

don’t take it wrong now… but public treating of each other won’t hopefully make things worse but won’t definately make them better. no matter, who was right and who was wrong during the last years. atm you are wrong both.

edit: with you i rather mean the leadership of the two parties, not specifical persons.

This reminds me of the cold war.

Gisteron wrote:
don’t take it wrong now… but public treating of each other won’t hopefully make things worse but won’t definately make them better. no matter, who was right and who was wrong during the last years. atm you are wrong both.

I would like to point out, that from my perspective, Op continues to bring the issues out into public for discussion.

Draw your own conclusions as to the motivations, but personally it is pretty obvious. http://lancersreactor.org/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=2270&s=d1661660467f215d1a3c349db8ea66ce8f4c1f70

My try to get Starport involved in TLR failed and just alone my offer to work together after they bashed this site on their forum resulted in more unpleasant comments. I clearly can not agree with them that rebuilding TLR is a split to the FL community, as well as I can not agree to their methods. On the other side, Starport has not done anything constructive here before, so it is no loss at all. I’d like to focus on those which want and not on those which dont want.
Having that in mind I think it would be unfair when the supporters of TLR work for the good of the community and others which dont do take the benefits. Fair would be to support exactly those which support us, and support can be done in many ways.

Now maybe he extended an olive branch I cannot see? I’ll have to re-read the topic to see his offer of working together…

Again, draw your own conclusions though. I don’t see a flamewar on TLR or Swat regarding here, which then results in people bleating back about how dreadfully uncooperative he is, or draconian, or just plain into sabotaging communities - but it does occur the other way around. Furthermore, it identifies TSP as an entity, and not individuals who actually posted before he arrived.

Individuals views are apparently TSP wide…

tl*;dr x_x
=P

• • srsly, for how many years now?

You guys have seriously been having the exact same argument for 3 years? I was hiding under a rock called Asylum51 for a long time so I had no idea about any of this. I’m looking at this from a different perspective now.

I visited Lancers reactor a few times in 2004/5 ish not long after I got freelancer, tried one or two mods featured on there and just got stuck on A51, loved the community so much I never saw any need to wander about or try other mods, community was the key not so much the mod.

When Glock threw the towel in I found this place and kind of realised that I’d been stuck in a time warp, modding has moved on a long way and speaking for myself only, the key seems to be found here in this community. Glock showed me the way with modding, and he was really good and always willing to help, but things have definately moved on, so much to learn here it’s rediculous and at times I feel totally out of my depth as things are now more focussed on hacking exe, dll and editing ale files etc, things I had no idea about just a year ago.

I haven’t got any interest in trying to keep up with more than one community at any one time, this place is my new freelancer Asylum51, there’s plenty of nutters here and although there’s an evident lack of thorazine the padded cells are comfortable enough, hence my loyalty.

I’d say that if it’s the same argument you guys are having 3 years on from the split you’re talking about, then it’s of little consequence anymore. Everyone’s obviously moved on and all seem to be doing just fine having gone their seperate ways. Whatever potential small gains might be achieved by linking the two communities would likely be undone by all the bad blood that’s spattered all over the walls of this thread. Live and let live.

To be honest, we aren’t fighting unless OP comes around TSP. I personally have had no reason whatsoever to go on his site and give him a bad name there. He, however, has come quite a few times and each time it turns into a flame war.

As Chips says, see what you want to see out of it, but I personally have no vested interest in making war with any site and, in fact, get along pretty nicely with everyone but a few key individuals. Feel free to prove me wrong.

OP can do whatever he wants with TLR and if he is interested in directly participating with us (NOT making demands or blaming us for god knows what other things), I’d be fine with listening to him and maybe, who knows, agreeing to collaborate. If, however, he only lumps everyone together in one large blob and only takes the bad sides (some of which, I’m afraid, are entirely false), then I’d rather not have any contact with him as to avoid further unnecessary flame wars.

Very nice to see the Freelancer community spirit alive and well .It is little wonder the Freelancer community is getting smaller and smaller every month. And just before any of you tell me to shut up it is players like myself who make up the community.

I m old - and I remember old stuff pretty well.
Stuff still @ the forum (as linked by Chips above) and
other stuff, which has obviously vanished
(as most mentionable imho a post of OP in an open section
'I don’t want TSP to host my stuff anymore

• remove it ASAP followed by a listing’
  Hey and a short time l8r he was back,
  to announce his all new upcoming mod. ).

And also I don’t think, it’s a good idea, to forget the past,
as it was suggested in hope for things getting better.
Closing your eyes won’t make things better
and to forget will just result in the same ol’ mistakes over and over again.
Don’t forget, but learn from the past, cause it will give an idea
of the presumable future.

Recalling the past from my point of view, I can see self-praise and agitation
and other things I don’t like.
On the other hand I find a lot of well known names
looking through the credits of the ol’ WTS World mod
started by Crabtree long years ago - but nothing about OP.
And I doubt, he was forgotten. He 4 sure had told that.

So after all I d assume that the only one,
who is intended to benefit from actions of OP is OP.
And if any of these actions should also cause benefit
for anything else, than OP and ‘his community’, it will
just be inevitable or accidentally or an attempt,
to get something from the ‘helped’ in exchange.
(Recalling that the argument for redrawing the stuff from TSP
was ‘not enough support for his community’ if I remember correct).

Besides - does it really make sense to try to revive a site,
which redirected the link provided by MS to an other site,
you don’t want your children to visit?

So overall by now nothing changed from my simple point of view.
But just w8 & c.

Timmy51m wrote:
You guys have seriously been having the exact same argument for 3 years?

Yes, every time they get on the same forum this happens.

Timmy51m wrote:
so much to learn here it’s rediculous and at times I feel totally out of my depth as things are now more focussed on hacking exe, dll and editing ale files etc, things I had no idea about just a year ago.

Not a surprise you had no idea about .ale editing a year ago, as thats been around for exactly that time, a year. Also, hex editing has been around for far longer than you can imagine in the FL community.

Timmy51m wrote:
I’d say that if it’s the same argument you guys are having 3 years on from the split you’re talking about, then it’s of little consequence anymore. Everyone’s obviously moved on and all seem to be doing just fine having gone their seperate ways.

If they over 3 years get into the same argument for 3 years, does that mean people moved on? In this games community OP is the one who didn’t move on, and drags everyone back with him when he enters a thread, at least thats my opinion after considering all this objectively for a while.

I really feel everyone just needs one big Hug….

Hug

Now Group Hug…

How dare you act in such an insulting way?!

You DON’T hug wolfs, thats just wrong.

Sigh
so it doesnt matter if I am here or not, the bashing keeps going on
well ok, keep showing your real face then

after letting this issue drop for 2 days and being told that nothing has changed at all i came to some pretty simple conclusions

1. you said that everything FF and w0dk4 have done wrong in the past does not matter (no matter how much damage it caused)… ok
this statement is followed how many sites of bashing going into my direction?
How comes that the statement “past is past” does only apply to them? I mean you refer this right to yourself while you dont grant it to others and keep bashing them?
Based on “the past is past” everyone is free of guilt… you, me, mental, azza…
2. based on that i came here to let the past drop… i came here to make an offer… i clearly ignored my personal feelings towards certain people when i wrote my very first post on this thread. I was willing to lay down all grudges (and i meanwhile have repeated it 2 times) to make an offer to TSP. My first post infact did not contain a demand nor any hostile comments.
The offer i was going to make is exactly the same offer that the others got and those also were not faced by demands or anything like that. Furthermore it is to be said that i asked for permission to link back to features hosted by the other communities.
3. the very first demand was coming from w0dk4 telling me that I have to place a link to TSP on my sites and the blame that i am not hosting the TSP community bar
4. sticking with the links i have stated that i might consider to establish a policy at TLR not to link to a site that is bashing TLR members. You keep blaming me for such a statement but in the end it is the response to your behaviour. If you want this policy being lifted then why dont you stop bashing others?
5. you seem to have fun posting links to old threads where i did argue with others over issues that actually are not your problem. Here I would like to point you back to 1. where “past is past”.
Furthermore id like to point out that i easily could point ppl to at least the same amount of threads where you did the same. The fact that I have not done that here actually was meant to show a good will.
6. the offer i was going to make towards TSP showed my good will to resolve the issues between the communities aswell (until a certain point where ppl suggested i would side with hackers), actually doing so was already the first step which was clearly turned down in this thread
7. the FL archives will return to TLR and after this long debate this is my only demand.
7.1. The old TLR database will be hosted at TLR as it is clearly TLR property.
The ownership was handed over from BP to mental, from him to azza and now to me. I have started to integrate the old TLR database backups right into the new TLR site where it belongs.
7.2. I dont want to be unfair… none of the data will be changed or deleted… and you have the free right to access that data at TLR. There will be no restrictions.
7.3. I also grant you the right to keep a copy/backup of that database that you can upload again IF TLR has to shut down for any possible reason
7.4. I want that the current FL archives are removed from hosting
7.5. I am not making any demands to hand over the converted database to me (this is not needed)
7.6. as legit owner of lancersreactor (since yesterday) aswell as old and new administrator of that site can make it happen by law
of course it is not my intention to force this demand in such a way so
7.7. as alternative option here is my suggestion:
you believe that you have the right to host the TLR database (TLR property that you never had the right or permission to host) because worfey was able to convert and include it into a new forum (that was a previous statement of this thread).
So how about if i crawl TSP (should not take long) and host the TSP database, all the threads, posts and members at TLR. I am of course allowed to do that because i have the ability. You took the old TLR and in exchange I take the current TSP. Sounds fair to me.
Cause and reaction… remember this principle?
8. i suggest you finally stop telling around that azza and i would side to cause damage to others. In fact Azza is not TLR owner anymore, he does not belong to the TLR staff aswell as he does not belong to the SWAT Portal. There are no connections between me and him and he is as much member of TSP as he is on TLR. So if you believe that he is hacking your servers then you should be aware that he is a TSP member and that your problems with him are not my problems (and i say that because it is the same answer i once got from you).

Do you really want to keep this going on or is there at least the chance to resolve the issues?
Clearly this is the very last time that I reach my hand to prevent further troubles. If you want let the past go then you should be willing to let things finally drop. I am willing to do the same.

Excuse me now, I have a few communities to run. U know… helping players… getting old players back… getting new players to join… talking to server admins and such stuff.
Ill check back in a few days to see if the bashing keeps going on.

I understand that you “reaching out” to us means that you allow us to take down the TLR archives before you take legal action.
How noble.

We’ll think about it.