FLServer and the future

Pretty much

The only thing I’m saying is that Wine is good and exists, but it’ll never be officially supported because it wouldn’t be a safe bet for any respectable company. They’d expose themselves to a ton of crap if they did. Honestly, it’d be as if a dev asked you to run an Xbox 360 emulator to play their PC games. Would that make any sense? No, but for those who want to use it without support, it’s a nice alternative.

I said 2D to make a clear case, but 3D games can be simple too. Look at Minecraft - can’t get much more simple than that as far as graphics go.

Then you haven’t been following things closely, Wolfie. DirectX basically dictates GPU features. DirectX is being updated quickly while it took years for OpenGL to sort itself up.

OGL is reorienting itself towards viz apps. Heck, id gave up on OGL. That alone should be more than enough to tell you OGL is lagging behind.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

Games are produced on the back of an investors money, seeing as the majority of people who use linux etc don’t see fit to invest money in so much as buying an OS, what would lead those developers to believe that they would spend money on the software and games they run on it. Games also need good graphics drivers, Nvidia and ATI invest a lot of cash and engineering man hours in many of todays quality games, their return is in the hardware we buy to run the games, at present that would be something with a dx11 sticker on it. Again, they probably think linux users dont invest in the OS, so probably have a piss poor computer, probably don’t invest in regular graphics cards upgrades, probably pirate their games, probably don’t pay for anything at all if they can help it, so screw em.

The linux argument is just like that horrible little whining noise you get in your ear from time to time, it happens for no good reason and once it starts it just doesn’t seem in any hurry to go away.

Nice try Wolfie (a few posts back, to get it on track)

kosacid wrote:
i belive lance is working on a engine wee might be able to use

Kosacid - any more details as to what this means? Right now it’s a little too cryptic for me to be able to get the gist of what you mean

All the Linux vs Windows, DirectX vs OpenGL… unless anyone really works with either or both of these, then I don’t think it’s right to say which is best without sources (Bas provides some, but I can’t help feeling that source is biased ).

@ Chips - this http://ss.galaxyempire.com/index.php

Well, I think OpenGL is kinda less popular to developers because new features are added via extensions and often this results in an extension mess whereas DirectX has some rather strict rules as to what a Direct3D card has to support.

The OpenGL extension mechanism is probably the most heavily disputed difference between the two APIs. OpenGL includes a mechanism where any driver can advertise its own extensions to the API, thus introducing new functionality such as blend modes, new ways of transferring data to the GPU, or different texture wrapping parameters. (…)
On the other hand, Direct3D is specified by one vendor (Microsoft) only, leading to a more consistent API, but denying access to vendor-specific features.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_OpenGL_and_Direct3D

Games are produced on the back of an investors money, seeing as the majority of people who use linux etc don’t see fit to invest money in so much as buying an OS, what would lead those developers to believe that they would spend money on the software and games they run on it. Games also need good graphics drivers, Nvidia and ATI invest a lot of cash and engineering man hours in many of todays quality games, their return is in the hardware we buy to run the games, at present that would be something with a dx11 sticker on it. Again, they probably think linux users dont invest in the OS, so probably have a piss poor computer, probably don’t invest in regular graphics cards upgrades, probably pirate their games, probably don’t pay for anything at all if they can help it, so screw em. The linux argument is just like that horrible little whining noise you get in your ear from time to time, it happens for no good reason and once it starts it just doesn’t seem in any hurry to go away.

You are moving on a very thing ice here, without meaning to be offensive towards you.

Games are produced on the back of an investors money, seeing as the majority of people who use linux etc don’t see fit to invest money in so much as buying an OS, what would lead those developers to believe that they would spend money on the software and games they run on it.

Oh?
You know, many Linux users still own a M$ license from before they swtiched to Linux and not such few are using it still in a dualboot. They are using Linux because they think it is the better OS (or at least the better OS for them), not mostly because it doesn’t cost anything. You can try to find a Linux user which never had Windows license before, but should be hard to find.
Or they are using Linux because it is free software. Free as in speech, not as in free bear. Not to mention that Linux is incredible stable and in my eyes less buggy.
For instance, it sucks to me pretty much that my Windows XP eats more ressources than Linux, plus, I hate those message windows which aren’t displayed at the taskbar. You know, those in the background, such as “properties”-windows or finished installation.
At Ubuntu I had a task in the task bar whcih showed me every window (it isn’t such filled up as you might think) so no problem to re-find “lost” application windows at all. Then, there is the package manager which simple is by far better than Microsoft Windows Software Center. Need an app? Just search directly at the Linux Software Center, click at Install and let it be downloaded and installed automatically.

Plus: How many percent of the Windows copies are pirated anyways?
So be careful about saying that ONLY Linux users aren’t willing to pay for an OS.

Plus²: If you read that one artcile correctly, it is quite interesting that Linux users did donate about twice as much per user as windows users, so you can hardly say that Linux users aren’t going to pay for any things which are good.

Don’t assume that Linux users don’t upgrade their hardware at all. This seems to me like a speculation of yourself, nothing more.
They do pirate games more? Wouldn’t pirates pay less for games than non-pirates (I am referring to this humble bundle thing again)?
I personally believe even that Windows users are pirating more, There is proprietary (“un-free Software”, closed-source, in this case also commercial) Software like hell at Windows, and I believe once a user has started to pirate software regulary they will hardly stop doing it. Just my own speculation, anyways.
I also think if you have a lot of free software aviable it is more likely to pay for good software simple because you have more money left.

Again, this isn’t a post against yourself or meant any way aggressive, I just disagree with what you are saying.

Bas wrote:
If you read that one article correctly, it is quite interesting that Linux users did donate about twice as much per user as windows users,

that’s because us Windows users are saving up for the next Windows version

Wolfie wrote:
Bas’ source is biased.

FF: What GPU features then? If I’m not wrong OpenGL 4.0 slapped DX11 all over the face.

What you said might have been true for OpenGL 2.0 to 3.0, those were a mess.

Chips wrote:
Nice try Wolfie (a few posts back, to get it on track)

I obviously failed…

I’ll kindly point out two things:
A) You said that OpenGL 2.0 and 3.0 were a mess. That we can agree with.
B) OpenGL 4.0 is only supported by the GTX 400 and HD 5000 series and above.

Therefore, developers can either choose to support DirectX 9 and 10 or OpenGL 2 and 3. DX11 and OGL4 are, for the moment, a tiny slice of the market.

What do you think devs will do?

I guess you missed the point.

Bas wrote:

Games are produced on the back of an investors money, seeing as the majority of people who use linux etc don’t see fit to invest money in so much as buying an OS, what would lead those developers to believe that they would spend money on the software and games they run on it. Games also need good graphics drivers, Nvidia and ATI invest a lot of cash and engineering man hours in many of todays quality games, their return is in the hardware we buy to run the games, at present that would be something with a dx11 sticker on it. Again, they probably think linux users dont invest in the OS, so probably have a piss poor computer, probably don’t invest in regular graphics cards upgrades, probably pirate their games, probably don’t pay for anything at all if they can help it, so screw em. The linux argument is just like that horrible little whining noise you get in your ear from time to time, it happens for no good reason and once it starts it just doesn’t seem in any hurry to go away.

You are moving on a very thing ice here, without meaning to be offensive towards you.

Games are produced on the back of an investors money, seeing as the majority of people who use linux etc don’t see fit to invest money in so much as buying an OS, what would lead those developers to believe that they would spend money on the software and games they run on it.

Oh?
You know, many Linux users still own a M$ license from before they swtiched to Linux and not such few are using it still in a dualboot. They are using Linux because they think it is the better OS (or at least the better OS for them), not mostly because it doesn’t cost anything. You can try to find a Linux user which never had Windows license before, but should be hard to find.
Or they are using Linux because it is free software. Free as in speech, not as in free bear. Not to mention that Linux is incredible stable and in my eyes less buggy.
For instance, it sucks to me pretty much that my Windows XP eats more ressources than Linux, plus, I hate those message windows which aren’t displayed at the taskbar. You know, those in the background, such as “properties”-windows or finished installation.
At Ubuntu I had a task in the task bar whcih showed me every window (it isn’t such filled up as you might think) so no problem to re-find “lost” application windows at all. Then, there is the package manager which simple is by far better than Microsoft Windows Software Center. Need an app? Just search directly at the Linux Software Center, click at Install and let it be downloaded and installed automatically.

Plus: How many percent of the Windows copies are pirated anyways?
So be careful about saying that ONLY Linux users aren’t willing to pay for an OS.

Plus²: If you read that one artcile correctly, it is quite interesting that Linux users did donate about twice as much per user as windows users, so you can hardly say that Linux users aren’t going to pay for any things which are good.

Don’t assume that Linux users don’t upgrade their hardware at all. This seems to me like a speculation of yourself, nothing more.
They do pirate games more? Wouldn’t pirates pay less for games than non-pirates (I am referring to this humble bundle thing again)?
I personally believe even that Windows users are pirating more, There is proprietary (“un-free Software”, closed-source, in this case also commercial) Software like hell at Windows, and I believe once a user has started to pirate software regulary they will hardly stop doing it. Just my own speculation, anyways.
I also think if you have a lot of free software aviable it is more likely to pay for good software simple because you have more money left.

Again, this isn’t a post against yourself or meant any way aggressive, I just disagree with what you are saying.

That’s exactly what I expected, it was no mistake, I was deliberately pushing buttons. Linux users are the computer worlds equivalent of a religious fanatic, all singing quotes from the same hymn sheet. Sure the words come out in a different order sometimes but the message is always the same. Bottom line, it doesn’t matter what linux users think about linux, it’s not a commercial interest. Did the ice just get even thinner? Go for it man.

That’s exactly what I expected, it was no mistake, I was deliberately pushing buttons. Linux users are the computer worlds equivalent of a religious fanatic, all singing quotes from the same hymn sheet.

Oh, and fanatic Windows users are better, eh?

Also, most Linux users HAVE used Windows before or still do. The same can’t be said about Windows users. So the Linux users know at least about what they are talking.
Have YOU tried out Linux?
I suspect no, and so you don’t know such much about the system, or do you?
I am also at Windows XP for the last weeks since FL & Gothic I doesn’t work such well with my graphics cards driver at Linux. Oh, wouldn’t a fanatic deny to his death to use Windows?

Sure the words come out in a different order sometimes but the message is always the same. Bottom line, it doesn’t matter what linux users think about linux, it’s not a commercial interest. Did the ice just get even thinner? Go for it man.

WRONG. Linux is definitivly commercial in some ways. They are firms out there, like Fedora or RedHat, which sell their Linux distributions for money to other firms.
Did you even read that blog entry from wolfire? Linux users DID pay more on an average basis than Windows users did. They aren’t taking things only if they are free.

PS: If you are willing to try out Linux I am willing to give you some assistance, you don’t even need to install anything if you just want to try it out (you can start it from the CD for testing purposes).

Brilliant! C’mon man, how easy was that? I was clearly baiting you and still you had to bite. I give you a few reasons why there’s no commercial interest in making games for linux and you go off on some crazy tangent like all linux users do as to why linux and it’s users are great, it makes no difference, it’s still not a commercial interest for investors.

For heavens sake, is it not open source? Totally at odds with any commercial interest by it’s very nature, the people involved and it’s users fight each other as much as they fight everyone else that doesn’t adopt their model. That’s what I mean by fanatical, you’ve just tried to convert me too, you’re all nuts!

Business is business, it’s ruthless, targets, deadlines, efficiency, productivity, differentiate or die. Everything would be worthless if the business world just burnt all their patents and copyrights then uploaded all of their concepts to the net.

Open source is more like democracy, debate everything, debate some more, argue a little, disagree about everything because everybody wants something a little different, it might work sometimes but bloody hell you need a truck load of paracetomol and a few decades to get there.

Your turn you crazy lunatic.

Brilliant! C’mon man, how easy was that? I was clearly baiting you and still you had to bite. I give you a few reasons why there’s no commercial interest in making games for linux and you go off on some crazy tangent like all linux users do as to why linux and it’s users are great, it makes no difference, it’s still not a commercial interest for investors.

I didn’t knew you were asking for games only.

For heavens sake, is it not open source? Totally at odds with any commercial interest by it’s very nature, the people involved and it’s users fight each other as much as they fight everyone else that doesn’t adopt their model. That’s what I mean by fanatical, you’ve just tried to convert me too, you’re all nuts!

I am not sure if the commercial Linux distributions like Fedora and RedHat enterprise are open source but I suspect they aren’t.
There is definitivly a lot of money made with free/open-source software (Those two distros above are based of open-source code).

I invited you so you could get a different point of view. Don’t make me to a fanatic because I am friendly.

If I sounded in any way offensive to you in this or my prior posts, I honestly apogolize for that, it wasn’t meant that way.

Don’t be daft, I’m only having a bit of fun here, just pulling your leg that’s all. It’s one of those topics where you know your guaranteed to piss somebody off. :lol:

P.S - windows users are fanatical too, but rather than defend the platform they constantly complain about how crap it is, but when you pay for something you expect it to work! Right?

Timmy51m wrote:
Brilliant! C’mon man, how easy was that? I was clearly baiting you and still you had to bite. I give you a few reasons why there’s no commercial interest in making games for linux and you go off on some crazy tangent like all linux users do as to why linux and it’s users are great, it makes no difference, it’s still not a commercial interest for investors.

For heavens sake, is it not open source? Totally at odds with any commercial interest by it’s very nature, the people involved and it’s users fight each other as much as they fight everyone else that doesn’t adopt their model. That’s what I mean by fanatical, you’ve just tried to convert me too, you’re all nuts!

Business is business, it’s ruthless, targets, deadlines, efficiency, productivity, differentiate or die. Everything would be worthless if the business world just burnt all their patents and copyrights then uploaded all of their concepts to the net.

Open source is more like democracy, debate everything, debate some more, argue a little, disagree about everything because everybody wants something a little different, it might work sometimes but bloody hell you need a truck load of paracetomol and a few decades to get there.

Your turn you crazy lunatic.

Making fallacious comments about how utilising free software implies that all Linux users are thieves to make some non existent point that is at best tangental to the underlying topic isn’t something I’d personally go around trumpeting as being entertainment for you at the expense of someone else.

This thread was sinking into the ridiculous…