/v/lancer strikes again?

Pastaspace wrote:
Also, wait, /v/ made katawa shoujo? I honestly would’ve used LURK as an example for stuff we’ve done…

I know it’s not entirely correct, (hence the semi-related) but my point still stands. I personally used it because its just so professional. LURK is a good example however, and it’s actually in the same vein as what /v/lancer is out to accomplish.

weishaupt wrote:
I’d just like to state that you seem to be the most level-headed and understanding person here, and that you are a true bro. Also, I have a question for you - Did you ever get that Colony Ship into the actual game? Because that thing was amazing.

Also, what Pasta said is the truth. We have asked permission, and gotten nothing but attitude and elitism in return. We ARE giving credit to the mods the resources come from, and we’ve said that before.

Whatever happened to sharing resources with each other freely for the betterment of the community? Remember when it wasn’t about who had the best server, or whose mod was best? Remember FUN? .

No I never did try to put it ingame at all. The Liberty Gunboat was an enormous pain to get into the game, and it was my first foray into importing ships. The Colony Ship will likely never make it into the game, at least, not by my hands anyway. I think it’s too many polygons anyway, but Freeworlds has figured ways around that for someone so determined.

I know I’m probably seriously tarnishing my reputation here, but you know what hurts about what he’s saying? He’s right. In my opinion I think its so stuffity to withhold things from the community. It really does happen more often than I want to admit. I’ve seen this “elitism” myself with people not wanting to share some of the things they’ve made. Not to mention the borderline xenophobic relations that each of the servers and mods can sometimes have with each other. (This has gotten a lot better in recent memory though.)

Although I think 3D models are sort of a different story, I really can’t understand why someone would want to withhold code, features, or new graphical gizmos and gadgets. That sort of stuff extends the life of the game greatly. Imagine where we would be if w0dk4, m0tah, adoxa, Lancer Solarus, and all the other great FL modding heroes. withheld the amazing contributions they’ve made in the past couple years.

I did actually look at the code and a few other things (mostly graphical) in Plasmafire, because I was really curious how it was done. I saw how he did it, and decided if I can’t use it directly, I’ll just make something I think is better. (Results may vary.)

Pastaspace wrote:

“None of your active players would ever go to /v/lancer”.

Talking about SWWT, not the entire FL Community,

Also I believe my predecessors actually asked for some of your materials and even help in the past, and you blew them off. I also believe you don’t actually ever offer any of your things to anyone, even when it wouldn’t affect you at all.

Also if you again, had been nicer, we might have been as well
We might still willing to negotiate some stuff, at least some of us.
Bearclaws probably wouldn’t.

Most of the reactions came in after you put up your advertisement video. It’s useless to pass the blame around over and over, we all have a little of it anyways.

I vaguely remember about you asking for materials (I think starspheres?), but we did not want to give these out. I don’t think we require a justification for something like that, we just didn’t want to. The starspheres were made using widely known techniques, so it’s not like we are withholding any secret info here. It just so happens that hours upon hours were put into them and that we’d like to keep these as a highlight of our mod. We have no problem with distributing other parts of our work, though. I personally don’t mind if you use any of my ALEs anywhere so long as credit is given, but starspheres I did not make and I fully respect the decision of those who made them to keep them for the mod.

This should go for anything; if the person does not want you to use something, it’s only respectful to abide to his wishes. See the comment about Plasmafire.

That you accuse me of not offering anything to anyone ever is wrong on so many levels it would be reason enough for me to just stop this right now. I’ve started this site, I’ve rebuilt it twice over, I’ve helped in I don’t even know how many mods… I don’t think I need to prove anything here. Please, I’m letting this discussion go but I’d rather you don’t attack people like that.

EDIT in addition to Why’s edit: I agree on this front, Why. I’d point out that starspheres are much, much closer to models than to techniques. Techniques should be shared as much as possible, but unique art is an entirely different subject. I’ve never said otherwise.

The Colony Ship will likely never make it into the game, at least, not by my hands anyway. I think it’s too many polygons anyway, but Freeworlds has figured ways around that for someone so determined.

You could loan it to us and we could try, we’ve got a few good modellers.
I’d post their stuff, but I don’t think people want a flying F40PH and a testiroid.

Pastaspace wrote:

The Colony Ship will likely never make it into the game, at least, not by my hands anyway. I think it’s too many polygons anyway, but Freeworlds has figured ways around that for someone so determined.

You could loan it to us and we could try, we’ve got a few good modellers.
I’d post their stuff, but I don’t think people want a flying F40PH and a testiroid.

I was just about to suggest exactly the same thing. I have got experience in building 100K+ poly models for freelancer and I would really like to try it on some new material! Yeah, this is side tracking the conversation but hay I am willing to help!

Ozed

Actually, I personally prefer F/OSS as well, as I would release it in the same way if I am a coder. But: If someone wants to protect their work and hold it back for themself it is their goddamn right to do so. You don’t have to like it, I don’t have to like it, but we simple should THEM decide about what they want to do with the stuff THEY created. This isn’t only a question of law but also of justice. It is simple fair.

However, I have to say that I believe that concepts themself shouldn’t be protected (at least not in the same hardlined way) because they are basically more some kind of an idea. And moreover, normally there is far less work behind an idea itself than about it’s implention. Plus I believe into public knowledge, whcih means, that knowledge itself shouldn’t be protected (this is an attitude most of the T SP users share - if you don’t believe me ask yourself why there even tutorials out here).

Another thing I want to mention is that we don’t have to like the idea about using work without the author’s permission, but we should admit that they - at least as it seems - give proper credit (I hope also for the stuff they didn’t got the permission for?). This doesn’t make the stealing part undone, but we all should agree with that it is better that the original authors get credited than if they get not.

Also, another thing why players might be important for modification developening is that they confirm the modders of the server they play at that they are doing something right (otherwise they won’t play at that server, oh?). They are also pushing him further since they constantly ask for more features, improvement of existing features, better performance and, and and…The modder simple gets stuff to do and he knows it will get appreciated by his community. I don’t want to say that this counts for all modders, maybe it even doesn’t count for you, pastaspace, but I believe it does for many of them. How you would feel if your server doesn’t get any players and even you are sick by flying alone in the universe all the time? Ok, maybe you would be fine with that. Maybe you think that now. Maybe your thought might change if you ever get into the situation, maybe not. Maybe your other collogues think different than you, I don’t know. This is just an assumption at all, but I think it might be very likely that you get frustrated then.

What also can’t be ignored - even you shouldn’t be able to reject it - That we all could save much power and energy if you didn’t steal the work. Be it that you got another ressource or you did it by yourself, this way much frustration and anger/aggression could be saved. However, this whole situation could be avoided.

i like weishaupt’s point.
it is time to recognize, that our good fair Freelancer slowly but clearly is getting old! if we keep trolling each other and fighting each other for creation of the “baest mott avah” and advertise single mods to make a nice name for ourselves, Freelancer just won’t make it. that gentlemen, like Why, Adoxa, SolCommand and W0dk4 (i won’t continue the list here, there are some more and all of you guys know whoever is missing or meant) do work not for their names but for the community does increase their reputation in an amazing way, doesn’t it? but forget the reputation we bloody su***rs should! it brought our possiblities forward in a way it is unique to the Freelancer modding branch. of course, whenever we use another team’s work, we shall ask before for permission. but not because were kind, no. because our work’s future depends on that!
we cannot afford anymore hunting each other for our work, we shall open up all of our secrets for anyone to be able to make a mod that deserves the name of a Freelancer Initiative, as long as we have basic knowledge of how to model and code. today in the break i told a schoolmate of mine about what is going on here with /v/ and the only comment he could respond was, that such a situation indicates only one thing in a modding community of our age: death of the game, death of its modding. if we keep trolling each other only a Freelancer 2 can save our ugly old asses. does anyone here want to be dependant on that? or do you want to infuse a pearl of communist blood to your veins in order to get together with your mates and make Freelancer worthy of survival?

I am pretty new here and pretty recently got to know about /v/lancer. therefore my relation with it is not yet damaged and our Goodness knows, it is not supposed to become damaged. /v/, just do ask and if requests are denied, accept it. TSP, stop blaming /v/, it is not gonna help anyone.
simple like that: we won’t survive if it is going to continue like this. either contact has to break entirely or we have to agree.

Gisteron, you failed the note the points outlined in several of the other topics: there’s a major difference between sharing techniques and sharing art. You’re describing sharing techniques, ideas, concepts, etc. This is something we’ve always promoted and I have no problem with anyone using concepts and techniques anyone else has found or devised.

What people have gripes with is using someone’s art without his permissions. It has absolutely nothing to do with sharing or being open; you can make the same art if you take the time to do it, since all the techniques are open and known.

I have to agree, works of art (like textures, models, starspheres, ALEs, maybe even whole Systems) are things that nobody should have a problem with being not available for public use in any mod.
That being said, I personally dont really see much sense in closing my work down, because the more restricted, the less impact on the community my work can have. And I’d want to have as much of an impact as possible, seeing how much time I wasted
I can see that there is another element, mainly the mod competition and the reach for the remaining FL players driving modders to restrict their stuff. And nobody should really have a problem with it. That doesnt mean we have to be happy about people not releasing their stuff, still it’s their right to do so.

I feel like we’ve had this discussion a thousand of times and it’s really getting old

er… okay… sorry
anyway, even artwork, i think all of us would share almost always. its just a question of kind request.

I tried to get some models from Discovery too. No success… Maby I should mention I’m not from the /v/ Lancer “bros”, and that I’m not using it to **** up Freelancer, but for a purpose.
And a sentence about that mod of yours:
****ING CRAZY BRAZILIAN SHIPS!!!
You are damn racists! What were you drinking? :pint:
Good thing you didn’t add there space aburagins… I don’t want to see the resault of this

I couldn’t find a picture of the comic, so.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjSEbayNeU4

Good thing you didn’t add there space aburagins…

You mean aborigines?
Those already exist, they’re called Nomads.

I agree with a lot of what WHY say’s, love his work too, but at the same time, FF makes the best possible point really. Take a look at this place, if it wasn’t for them providing a place where people could actually learn a thing or two about modding freelancer, then how the hell would anyone be able to do it in the first place.

You have to give thanks to the fact that they tell you how to do it, to then gut their mods of materials and use their guides to insert them into your own mod is just pissing in their face. Add to that the fact that someone could come onto their site and #$%% all over them aswell by advertising the fact that they have ripped the materials from their mod and apparently done a better job with them…. Well, in most places that kind of person would no longer have a voice in that place.

Therefore, I have to agree with FF, it’s all about attitude.

As I’ve said before, I really bloody wish they would all get themselves and their materials together and make one almighty starport mod, it might be a clash of personalities and styles but their would be no arguments about who owns what and who has permission to use what, they own it all already. Screw twenty great mods, have one mutha of all to rule all and one community to bring it all together for one last stand. I know, it will never happen… :-x